C2019 Negotiations And Approval
10-02-2018, 09:18 AM
#11
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by gzsg
I would encourage every one of you to attend an MEC meeting and talk with all the reps.
They are more than reasonable. Very intelligent and above all else, 100% committed to the survey.
The nonsense that this MEC is hardcore crazy is just plain nonsense.
Mr. Bastian is returning 70% of Delta’s free cash flow to the shareholders annually. $4 Billion per year.
There is more than enough capital for the Delta pilots to make major gains across the board and conclude negotiations in short order.
Come to a meeting and meet the negotiating committee. They are all amazing and gifted volunteers. Very reasonable and fair.
They are more than reasonable. Very intelligent and above all else, 100% committed to the survey.
The nonsense that this MEC is hardcore crazy is just plain nonsense.
Mr. Bastian is returning 70% of Delta’s free cash flow to the shareholders annually. $4 Billion per year.
There is more than enough capital for the Delta pilots to make major gains across the board and conclude negotiations in short order.
Come to a meeting and meet the negotiating committee. They are all amazing and gifted volunteers. Very reasonable and fair.
Don't know where you are coming up with "hardcore crazy" - your post is the first one that I saw that posted.
If you are referring to my post I said, and I repeat "A very vocal minority has the ear of the MEC."
This very vocal minority claims TA-2 was a disaster on the scale of the French Military
, a complete failure followed by surrender. They are setting the MEC up for failure. How can the MEC possibly agree to anything without the mob turning on them? Remember the "Dream Team" on C-44 that was voted in during the last section 6? Look at the "High esteem' that many on SM espouse upon them and they brought us a deal approved by 82% of the Pilot group. Think the current MEC wants to go down that road?
If they can bring us a far superior deal that is great, I am all in and until they prove otherwise they have my full support.............but if this gets stretched out for years - that is years without QOL improvements.
No Retro for QOL - just years passing by.
Scoop
10-02-2018, 06:22 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Captain
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by Scoop
Don't know where you are coming up with "hardcore crazy" - your post is the first one that I saw that posted.
If you are referring to my post I said, and I repeat "A very vocal minority has the ear of the MEC."
This very vocal minority claims TA-2 was a disaster on the scale of the French Military, a complete failure followed by surrender. They are setting the MEC up for failure. How can the MEC possibly agree to anything without the mob turning on them?
Remember the "Dream Team" on C-44 that was voted in during the last section 6? Look at the "High esteem' that many on SM espouse upon them and they brought us a deal approved by 82% of the Pilot group. Think the current MEC wants to go down that road?
If they can bring us a far superior deal that is great, I am all in and until they prove otherwise they have my full support.............but if this gets stretched out for years - that is years without QOL improvements.
No Retro for QOL - just years passing by.
Scoop
If you are referring to my post I said, and I repeat "A very vocal minority has the ear of the MEC."
This very vocal minority claims TA-2 was a disaster on the scale of the French Military
, a complete failure followed by surrender. They are setting the MEC up for failure. How can the MEC possibly agree to anything without the mob turning on them? Remember the "Dream Team" on C-44 that was voted in during the last section 6? Look at the "High esteem' that many on SM espouse upon them and they brought us a deal approved by 82% of the Pilot group. Think the current MEC wants to go down that road?
If they can bring us a far superior deal that is great, I am all in and until they prove otherwise they have my full support.............but if this gets stretched out for years - that is years without QOL improvements.
No Retro for QOL - just years passing by.
Scoop
What is the MEC actually doing to try and get an equitable deal for the Delta Pilots on JVs?
Just an educated guess, but I think you have a bunch of MEC members who have made so many hardline promises that it will be almost impossible for them to ever vote “yes” to anything that isn’t the opener. You can kinda see it based on the posts of the ones who are on social media.
10-02-2018, 07:17 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,503
Originally Posted by RonRicco
Spot on Scoop. There is also no retro on Scope either. 20 months have passed now and there is no deal. No they haven’t caved, (I guess they can put that on their relection letters) but they are also letting AM basically grow unabated in the mean time. Will we be ok with that in 20 more months? Will be ok with the same reroute rules in 20 more months? (Many pilots don’t realize we technically have been negotiating reroute for a year and a half as well.)
What is the MEC actually doing to try and get an equitable deal for the Delta Pilots on JVs?
Just an educated guess, but I think you have a bunch of MEC members who have made so many hardline promises that it will be almost impossible for them to ever vote “yes” to anything that isn’t the opener. You can kinda see it based on the posts of the ones who are on social media.
What is the MEC actually doing to try and get an equitable deal for the Delta Pilots on JVs?
Just an educated guess, but I think you have a bunch of MEC members who have made so many hardline promises that it will be almost impossible for them to ever vote “yes” to anything that isn’t the opener. You can kinda see it based on the posts of the ones who are on social media.
10-02-2018, 10:41 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
As you point out, the individual threads have been focused on a single issue and the opinions exist within a vacuum. Once the multiple issues are blended together, there will be a more holistic view of the TA. If the contract as a whole is lopsided, then it should be rejected.
I certainly hope all of you are correct and 14,000+ pilots don’t become one issue voters.
And, most definitely, a contract should be voted down if it’s lopsided. Scoop is right, there is no retro for QOL items. GZSG I hope you are right in putting your faith behind this MEC. Time will tell.
Denny
10-02-2018, 10:50 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Supreme Allied Commander
Posts: 1,055
There is no retro on scope or QOL. But if asking for improvements to both IS the reason for prolonged negotiations, what are you suggesting? If we take an initial offer, but negotiating for a year or two longer results in 2x the QOL...there'd be no retro of the lost QOL gains until potentially a second contract cycle.
Not proposing we take the first or drag it out. Just highlighting that missing out on SOME improvements for a year or two for MANY more later could theoretically be a better deal. It's a gamble for sure though.
Not proposing we take the first or drag it out. Just highlighting that missing out on SOME improvements for a year or two for MANY more later could theoretically be a better deal. It's a gamble for sure though.
10-03-2018, 02:41 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Captain
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by tunes
Help me understand with the AM thing...there is no way the union should have accepted the last company offer...so they countered....how is AM growing unabated? They cant fly any more than our current scope permits. I’d much rather have what we have now than what was offered to us last.
The last time I heard (and it may have changed since then) it was our turn to present a counter offer to the company. Nobody is saying accept the company offer, but failing to provide a counter offer means we either opened too low... or reinforces the points made previously.
I am being completely serious here. Is this how it is going to work during Section 6? We present our opener. The Company counters. We don’t like it and we sit around and wait for them to counter their own counter? We don’t move till the NMB gets involved? The NMB is NOT a magic bullet, especially if you try and walk in with 300 open items.
Unless we hold some huge leverage for whatever reason, the company isn’t any more inclined to come to an agreement in sec 6 than they are with with today’s negotiations. I have yet to see a working strategy on these smaller negotiations that gives me any hope of completing any of the larger items in front of us.
10-03-2018, 07:10 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,503
Originally Posted by RonRicco
And what are those restrictions? Block hours can’t be reduced and we have the “code share” seat limitation. There is nothing contractually that allows us to share the flying as the JV grows. Look at the outrage on the AF JV which many think is too low, yet look at what could be done if our only restrictions are 1e. I am glad we got a better deal than that.
The last time I heard (and it may have changed since then) it was our turn to present a counter offer to the company. Nobody is saying accept the company offer, but failing to provide a counter offer means we either opened too low... or reinforces the points made previously.
I am being completely serious here. Is this how it is going to work during Section 6? We present our opener. The Company counters. We don’t like it and we sit around and wait for them to counter their own counter? We don’t move till the NMB gets involved? The NMB is NOT a magic bullet, especially if you try and walk in with 300 open items.
Unless we hold some huge leverage for whatever reason, the company isn’t any more inclined to come to an agreement in sec 6 than they are with with today’s negotiations. I have yet to see a working strategy on these smaller negotiations that gives me any hope of completing any of the larger items in front of us.
The last time I heard (and it may have changed since then) it was our turn to present a counter offer to the company. Nobody is saying accept the company offer, but failing to provide a counter offer means we either opened too low... or reinforces the points made previously.
I am being completely serious here. Is this how it is going to work during Section 6? We present our opener. The Company counters. We don’t like it and we sit around and wait for them to counter their own counter? We don’t move till the NMB gets involved? The NMB is NOT a magic bullet, especially if you try and walk in with 300 open items.
Unless we hold some huge leverage for whatever reason, the company isn’t any more inclined to come to an agreement in sec 6 than they are with with today’s negotiations. I have yet to see a working strategy on these smaller negotiations that gives me any hope of completing any of the larger items in front of us.
Ask your reps....a counter was submitted back to the company...they are the ones that have been holding it
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10-03-2018, 11:59 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767 F/O
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by gzsg
I would encourage every one of you to attend an MEC meeting and talk with all the reps.
They are more than reasonable. Very intelligent and above all else, 100% committed to the survey.
The nonsense that this MEC is hardcore crazy is just plain nonsense.
Mr. Bastian is returning 70% of Delta’s free cash flow to the shareholders annually. $4 Billion per year.
There is more than enough capital for the Delta pilots to make major gains across the board and conclude negotiations in short order.
Come to a meeting and meet the negotiating committee. They are all amazing and gifted volunteers. Very reasonable and fair.
They are more than reasonable. Very intelligent and above all else, 100% committed to the survey.
The nonsense that this MEC is hardcore crazy is just plain nonsense.
Mr. Bastian is returning 70% of Delta’s free cash flow to the shareholders annually. $4 Billion per year.
There is more than enough capital for the Delta pilots to make major gains across the board and conclude negotiations in short order.
Come to a meeting and meet the negotiating committee. They are all amazing and gifted volunteers. Very reasonable and fair.
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