If you think the Note distribution was supposed to cover a 49% DB, you are sadly mistaken. IIRC the Note distribution was where the junior pilots of the time were plussed up and given a FAE minimum of 205K for that particular silo.

Yup, all us senior guys want to do is "money grab." :rolleyes:

All I can say is I sure hope you young whipper snappers don't have to go thru what we did. But you know what they say, what goes around comes around. I hope all of you will be adequately prepared.

Denny

Not directed at you Denny, but the DB crowd who want 60% FAE DB or nothing...they're most definitely out there. As I've said, I'm not totally against the idea (such as the hybrid DB) but still trying to educate myself on them. I'm all for more streams of retirement income, which is why I also own rental properties and have a separate brokerage account for investing excess funds in solid dividend paying stocks.

The problem I have with just an increase to the DC is that once we hit the 415(c) limits, it's all taxable. I love the idea of increasing the DC to the point where the company's contribution is maxing me out, but then I still want more sheltered money.

I say max the DC, give us the raise (Now-Money) AND look at the new DB options.

To be clear where I'm coming from, I was hired 'after the fall' so I never had a DB. I lived through the lean times flying freight, being furloughed from an FE job at a national, getting on with a regional and surviving the long slow slog to mainline hiring, always keeping my application current. I got hired at 'the beginning of the wave' and have maxed my 401(k) since getting on board, and will do fine as long as I stay alive for the next 15 years.

I'm open for any IMPROVEMENTS to retirement that don't require ANY gives.

This right here.

IMO at our income level we don't need anymore tax sheltered money. An argument could be made that taxes will go up in the future and it's better off to pay taxes now and grow money in a Roth, Brokerage or alternative fund like Real Estate. Lastly, DC Excess Cash allows you to pay taxes now and put your money in investments that can create passive income streams much sooner than retirement age.

While saving for retirement in tax advantaged accounts is important, IMO, especially at our income levels, it is way overdone and has convinced folks to lock away the money they worked for with no access for decades. House rich, 401k rich but Cashflow poor is real. And the folks running Banks and Wallstreet are getting filthy rich off of all of that.

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This right here x2.

This x1000. If I want diversification I will just select a different investment within my 401k. Giving the company control over my money in a DB pension is certainly not increasing my diversification! It’s increasing the risk that I will lose the money altogether in a bankruptcy!

Thanks for that. Anyone that thinks we can get a fully funded 60% FAE DB is smoking some good stuff!:) Who knows though, maybe a separate, company funded hybrid DB that would accrue X percentage a year is.....

My personal feeling is the best we will achieve is some kind of retirement medical. It would be a start.

Denny

And I disagree. How many pilots are going to be making more in retirement than when working? If you will be one then I applaud you but the vast majority will not be in that boat. When you have a lesser income, your taxes will be in a lower bracket. The more that can be sheltered the better. DC Excess cash does allow you to pay taxes and invest.......and then pay taxes on those investments. Another tax sheltered avenue allows for the avoidance of those taxes and allows you to take regulate how much you take (except for RMD's) to keep yourself in a lower tax bracket.

Not everybody is an investing guru. Tax sheltered accounts allow for a comfortable retirement while possibly avoiding a higher tax bracket in ones earning years. Questions: Do you max out your 401k? If you do, why? You think its a good idea to get DC Excess in cash. Why not just take it all after taxes and invest it in what you want?

Everyone can put as much or as little in our current DC so your argument about being cash poor is null. If you (the all inclusive you) think you're going to be cash poor, don't put as much in. But please don't assume everyone is in that situation.

Denny

Did you watch the video? A third party company like PriceWaterhouse would be responsible for investing the fund. Neither DALPA nor the company would have any control over the fund. Don't know how many times I have to say this but the hybrid DB is NOT forfeitable in a bankruptcy.

Denny