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Old 03-25-2019, 07:29 AM   #41  
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Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF View Post
Copy....no math to support your statement that a pension is feasable.

You have a mole on the R&I Committee telling you whats in the opener, or just your gut feel?
Have you watched the R&I videos on the subject?

Denny
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:24 AM   #42  
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane View Post
Have you watched the R&I videos on the subject?

Denny
Yes I have; virtual roadshow webinar, Non-qual DC Video, Enhanced Retirement Video, DPSP Video.

I heard about Variable DB, "Modern" DB, Hybrid DB...no where did I hear 60% FAE DB was being explored.

They even stated "a traditional DB plan is not an attractive
savings option for employees or employers alike" in one of their bulletins.

I think i can say with 99.99% (repeating of course) certainty that a tradition pension is not coming back and those that think the 60% FAE DB is coming back are smoking dope!

And yes I have flown with a Capt that said he is a 100% "No" vote unless 60% FAE is restored, so they are out there.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:35 AM   #43  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF View Post
Yes I have; virtual roadshow webinar, Non-qual DC Video, Enhanced Retirement Video, DPSP Video.

I heard about Variable DB, "Modern" DB, Hybrid DB...no where did I hear 60% FAE DB was being explored.

They even stated "a traditional DB plan is not an attractive
savings option for employees or employers alike" in one of their bulletins.

I think i can say with 99.99% (repeating of course) certainty that a tradition pension is not coming back and those that think the 60% FAE DB is coming back are smoking dope!

And yes I have flown with a Capt that said he is a 100% "No" vote unless 60% FAE is restored, so they are out there.
Traditional pension (FAE...%) is for delusional dope smokers. It burned us once and will burn us again. I’ll give you my 100% “NO” if FAE is on the TA. It’s unrealistic and set me back a decade because of it. Times have changed. I hope we’ve learned and that these options are new and don’t rely on Delta having to fund accounts. I will only support and vote for a retirement option that’s fully and immediately funded, in my name and will fully and immediately transfer to my estate upon my death. Fully vested on day 1.

If not then it’s a big and vocal NO. If we didn’t learn through the force majeure and BK days then we’ve learned nothing.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:38 AM   #44  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF View Post
Yes I have; virtual roadshow webinar, Non-qual DC Video, Enhanced Retirement Video, DPSP Video.

I heard about Variable DB, "Modern" DB, Hybrid DB...no where did I hear 60% FAE DB was being explored.

They even stated "a traditional DB plan is not an attractive
savings option for employees or employers alike" in one of their bulletins.

I think i can say with 99.99% (repeating of course) certainty that a tradition pension is not coming back and those that think the 60% FAE DB is coming back are smoking dope!

And yes I have flown with a Capt that said he is a 100% "No" vote unless 60% FAE is restored, so they are out there.
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Originally Posted by Tailhookah View Post
Traditional pension (FAE...%) is for delusional dope smokers. It burned us once and will burn us again. Iíll give you my 100% ďNOĒ if FAE is on the TA. Itís unrealistic and set me back a decade because of it. Times have changed. I hope weíve learned and that these options are new and donít rely on Delta having to fund accounts. I will only support and vote for a retirement option thatís fully and immediately funded, in my name and will fully and immediately transfer to my estate upon my death. Fully vested on day 1.

If not then itís a big and vocal NO. If we didnít learn through the force majeure and BK days then weíve learned nothing.
What he said.

Denny
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:52 AM   #45  
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The Retirement and Insurance working group has done some incredible work in preparation for C2019. Reaching out to other pilot groups and financial industry experts. When the opener is released to the pilot group on April 5th, I believe all our pilots will be very pleased.

Retirement is sorely lacking for all the Delta pilots and we will make major gains in C2019.
You are smoking some good stuff if you think specific opening positions will be released to the pilot group. It will be written in generalities like "much improved pay, retirement, and work rules". They will not say we opened with a 20% pay increase.

How can you say retirement is sorely lacking for all Delta pilots? Even with no improvement to the DC, we (and many other airline pilots) have a retirement program that most people would not believe. If you are approaching retirement then you will be sorely disappointed that you will not be getting a 60% FAE. It's just not going to happen. To provide near term retirees with a 60% FAE would take too much of the contract money pie at the direct expense of us newer guys. Junior pilots and even mid seniority pilots are not onboard with an attempted money grab.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:02 AM   #46  
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You could have left out your last sentence. It does nothing for your argument....

Denny
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:04 AM   #47  
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You are smoking some good stuff if you think specific opening positions will be released to the pilot group. It will be written in generalities like "much improved pay, retirement, and work rules". They will not say we opened with a 20% pay increase.

How can you say retirement is sorely lacking for all Delta pilots? Even with no improvement to the DC, we (and many other airline pilots) have a retirement program that most people would not believe. If you are approaching retirement then you will be sorely disappointed that you will not be getting a 60% FAE. It's just not going to happen. To provide near term retirees with a 60% FAE would take too much of the contract money pie at the direct expense of us newer guys. Junior pilots and even mid seniority pilots are not onboard with an attempted money grab.
Agree. But our retirement program is so good for a few reasons, mainly though that we are not allowed to work past 65. Other people donít get sent packing from their careers at 65. For those of you that havenít had to find work outside of the cockpit (ie. those of us whoíve been furloughed had the ďpleasureĒ...) youíll find out that our unique skills donít amount to anything thatís transferable to another job...except maybe Walmart greeter or golf course marshal...

So we have a unique retirement situation. And we are just slightly in a highly trained line of work. You want the skilled pilots? Best of the best? Safe. Then itís going to cost you. We ate the &$#@ sandwich for many years. Now itís time to reap the benefits of a bull market for pilots. Maybe the best bull market ever. We still havenít recouped where we were... even when we donít account for the loss of pension.

We all need to realize this and I donít plan on rolling over and accepting scraps. Iím not a burn it down guy. But I know that we can improve our lot and have incrementally done so over the past few contracts and this is the final step to regain our worth that we gave up so quickly so long ago.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:12 AM   #48  
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Agree. But our retirement program is so good for a few reasons, mainly though that we are not allowed to work past 65. Other people donít get sent packing from their careers at 65. For those of you that havenít had to find work outside of the cockpit (ie. those of us whoíve been furloughed had the ďpleasureĒ...) youíll find out that our unique skills donít amount to anything thatís transferable to another job...except maybe Walmart greeter or golf course marshal...

So we have a unique retirement situation. And we are just slightly in a highly trained line of work. You want the skilled pilots? Best of the best? Safe. Then itís going to cost you. We ate the &$#@ sandwich for many years. Now itís time to reap the benefits of a bull market for pilots. Maybe the best bull market ever. We still havenít recouped where we were... even when we donít account for the loss of pension.

We all need to realize this and I donít plan on rolling over and accepting scraps. Iím not a burn it down guy. But I know that we can improve our lot and have incrementally done so over the past few contracts and this is the final step to regain our worth that we gave up so quickly so long ago.
I agree that we should be shooting for the moon in terms of pay, work rules, scope, increased DC, etc.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:48 AM   #49  
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As for C19 retirement, I've seen and heard absolutely nothing to indicate that it will be anything other than offering us options (which is cool) and maybe a small amount of additional funding for some of those options.

There is zero chance its going to be a municipal employee style high water mark pump and dump FAE (sorry A350 guys). And no way its going to add billions in cost simply because they theoretically could "afford" it. It'll be a new plan(s) option(s) that may make sense to some, and could even save the company some money (taxes).

Again, options for a large diverse needs group isn't a bad thing. But if anyone is thinking there's going to be a walk off grand slam retirement restoration/retroactive lifetime guarantee (other than a go forward annuity style plan or something like that), you're going to be very disappointed.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:48 AM   #50  
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There are a few retirement options being explored. Some of them are tax advantaged others are not. Each option carries it's own unique risks, some are even dependent on the financial position of the company when it comes time to collect. There are a few options that may provide a bridge into retirement for those who had a pension stolen, but implementation of a retroactive FAE plan is unlikely at best.

At our income level and employment positions as high paid hourly employees, we bump up against the limits for any tax advantaged plan. It is either the financial limits set by the IRS or limits on control, because we are in a cockpit, not the boardroom. The reality is that we are responsible for our own retirement funding and anything above the IRS max will provide better returns for us if we are just given the money and allowed to invest on our own. The focus on C2019 should be company funded up to the 415C limits, which would be 20% with the current 56k contribution and 280k income limits. Above the 56k contribution limits should be paid in DPSP Cash.
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