Originally Posted by Xtreme87

If...if this works, and JB continues to grow. Widebodies are next and then the whole trans atlantic mafia comes falling down. That’s a big if.

Originally Posted by BeatNavy

Well, every US airline except JB has gone thru at least one BK and/or bought, been bought, or merged. I'd say most people in this industry are pretty well aware of that reality. Statistically speaking one of the above will happen to every airline pilot at some point in a 30-40 year career. Why JB's TATL ambitions prompt you to troll their forum, or continue to troll them on an unrelated airline's forum, is interesting, to say the least.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Highly doubtful. Lots of airlines have tried the Atlantic with widebodies. There are multiple issues. The first being that the Atlantic makes big profits in the summer and loses most of that in the winter. The second is that to have long term success and viability international long haul has to be fed at both ends by strong networks.
To paraphrase Freddy Laker, “Any idiot can make money flying the Atlantic in the summer, the problem is how not to lose it all in the winter.”

Originally Posted by Tailhookah

A few flights over the pond does nothing for their bottom line. Now if they go full retard and try to become the TA’s biggest carrier... we’ll dont worry about that either. They have undoubtedly the worst management team and lots of issues that would be exposed. I think we are going to see an all out assault on B6 by all carriers on both sides. Delta, AA, VA, BA will not allow B6 any slop like they had post 9/11 when they thought they were killing it. They were killing it because there was heavy bleeding in the rest of the industry and no one had the ability to do much.

B6 ain’t the same carrier now that they were in 2003. They now make market rates (as opposed to $80/hr captains). Labor company wide is ****ed. Back in the day everyone pulled in the same direction and sacrificed all for the company. That’s gone. In fact I’d say B6 has a pretty big disgruntled labor force. Maintenance costs are now a factor (just like the rest of the industry). Their 320 fleet is aging and running into middle to old age (they fly their 320’s hard).

They are a different animal that no longer has a free ride. Actually the opposite. In times of increasing fuel and legacy carriers (failed models to the B6 lore/culture) that are now not only profitable but huuuuugely profitable B6 is jumping into the crucible while wearing flammable banana slings.

This latest move, with a two year heads up (good move Robin Hayes), will just incense the legacy carriers and give them plenty of time to bolster the biz plans against certain competitors. Combined we can tread in the deep end forever. They are jumping in with both hands tied behind their backs and wearing cement shoes. Hope you guys (B6) have loooong snorkels!

Originally Posted by deus ex machina

well said.. and for the last few weeks B6 pilots have been dancing in the streets about the big April announcement... it's here and it's really nothing concrete, rather the same as a lottery ticket dreamer.

meanwhile; is there a capacity problem between NYC/BOS and London? Does the industry/market need more lift? Or does JB just think people want to snack on blue chips instead of whatever

but B6 pilots are blue cause guys on the forum are raining on their parade. (show me on the doll where the internet hurt B6 pilots )

Originally Posted by BeatNavy

Most B6 pilots were underwhelmed with the announcement and don’t really care to fly across the pond. There certainly wasn’t dancing in the street. Doesn’t pay anymore than any other trip. Nor do they care what legacy guys say, but get annoyed when legacy guy says like deus and tailhooker troll the JB forum. But whatever. I’m sure JB will fail and this will cause the demise of blue.

Originally Posted by deus ex machina

that is not what I said.

I said before the announcement, not how they felt after the announcement.

So when B6 pilots brag and 'rally' that they are going to compete against legacy airlines to London that is cool.

But when guys temper that with reality its called trolling?


Again, show me on the doll where the internet hurt you.

Originally Posted by deus ex machina

Back to the hard questions; if there was a capacity problem on the Atlantic routes wouldn't DAL and others simply fly another segment?

So what is Jetblue really trying to do (two years from now )? And will it work?

Originally Posted by gloopy

Exactly. NYC/BOS-London is extremely well saturated. The only possible way they could ever think they'll make it work would be by severely undercutting existing carriers (especially premium/FC) under the assumption that existing carriers will yield that capacity to them on their terms. They then assume that model will work for additional growth and then on to other routes. Its an all you can eat buffet menu just like FL and transcons were in 2003. It was cute when they slowly dumped "mint" all over high yield transcons in recent years but this stratedgy will be viewed as so extremely agressive that it will result in a significant response because the trend vector for not doing so would be economically catastrophic for existing carriers.

Originally Posted by deus ex machina

Still not answering questions...

When has a NB fleet type in routine airline operations been successful?

When has a low cost carrier been successful flying the Atlantic.

LHR is expensive wrt to taxes to operate out of.. not sure its a leisure destination... sure people want cheap airfare but they don't want to land in some satellite airport and pay just as much in ground transportation they did in airfare just to get to downtown London... a prime example is NAI.

What am I missing here...