Negotiators: more cost data please
05-04-2019 | 01:02 PM
#21
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TED......agree whit what you said but, I think I can offer some insight to this one question. Buddy passes are a revenue generator for the company......they unload excess inventory and shed “spoiled fruit” with ancilliary income(while a lot of times frustrating the buddy pass rider). So in your example, it would be a double loss for the company....loss of income for the company on the buddy pass combined with a loss of income on the PS pass.
05-04-2019 | 01:20 PM
#22
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But what the OP wants IS the realtor to predict the final sale price of a house. The OP wants to add up the individual components of all the houses so they can determine if the newer light fixtures in one house are better than the nicer windows in another. We already told the realtor (the union) what we want. Their job is to find us a house (TA) that meets out standards and we get to decide (vote) on if we like it.
I think we told the realtor (the union) that we prefer blue houses over green houses and green houses over yellow houses. While that may still hold true, learning that I could get 4 green houses for the price of a blue house, or 12 yellow houses for less than half of that could influence the house(s) on which I write an offer. I may still prefer blue, but understanding the rough price to get one may (or may not) alter my direction to the realtor (negotiator).
As our input to reps currently stands - completely agnostic of contractual value because we don't know the relative value/cost, negotiators are left doing the cost-benefit analysis alone. Maybe their decisions mirror my preferences and maybe they don't. There were at least some level of effort weighting questions in the polling. I think more information is better, and am quite sure that even rough valuation estimates would improve the quality and relevance of my own input and likely that of others.
05-04-2019 | 01:24 PM
#23
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Good one....that’s what I call thinking outside of the box....a win for the home team....we give them all that additional revenue in exchange for PS passes....I like where this is going
....might work......if we only had some numbers!!!....At least the concept is sound(at least in my feeble brain)
05-04-2019 | 02:01 PM
#24
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There is a critical flaw with trying to find a cost of a contract. Airlines (even Delta) are not able to accurately predict the cost of each section of a contract.
It is like an owner of a grocery store trying to see what their 5 year profits will be if they increase the price of crackers. Once the price changes, the market changes. People may start to find cheaper alternatives such as chips.
Airline costs and profits are much harder to predict than most businesses. There are too many variables. Not only do they have to make wild guesses about future loads and route structures (that change weekly), they have to predict how the pilots will respond. Maybe improved deadhead language will make deadheads cost more to the company. They may respond by taking a 3 day trip that ended with a deadhead and adding another day in order to make the crew operate a flight rather than deadhead. That may then cause commuters who liked to deviate to bid off that aircraft. That will cause an increase in training costs that may be greater than the deadhead.
The cost of a contract is dynamic. Language that may start out expensive on day one might be cheap by the end of the first year. Other language that started out cheap might end up costing the most by the end of the contract.
It is like an owner of a grocery store trying to see what their 5 year profits will be if they increase the price of crackers. Once the price changes, the market changes. People may start to find cheaper alternatives such as chips.
Airline costs and profits are much harder to predict than most businesses. There are too many variables. Not only do they have to make wild guesses about future loads and route structures (that change weekly), they have to predict how the pilots will respond. Maybe improved deadhead language will make deadheads cost more to the company. They may respond by taking a 3 day trip that ended with a deadhead and adding another day in order to make the crew operate a flight rather than deadhead. That may then cause commuters who liked to deviate to bid off that aircraft. That will cause an increase in training costs that may be greater than the deadhead.
The cost of a contract is dynamic. Language that may start out expensive on day one might be cheap by the end of the first year. Other language that started out cheap might end up costing the most by the end of the contract.
05-04-2019 | 03:30 PM
#25
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From: The Beginnings
The book “Tailspin” by Stephen Brill goes into excellent detail on some less-than-altruistic reasons companies repurchase stock not mentioned in a recent company missive.
Is this one of them? Dunno. But there does seem to be plenty o’cash In the company kitty.
05-04-2019 | 05:44 PM
#28
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From: ir.delta.com
https://www.moodys.com/research/Mood...nes--PR_395248
Last edited by notEnuf; 05-04-2019 at 06:04 PM.
05-04-2019 | 05:50 PM
#29
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From: ir.delta.com
I agree it would be nice to have some sense of what value certain contractual changes likely hold. I don't even require very accurate info because many of us might be off by a factor of 10 or 20 trying to simply guess on some of these items. Even a very rough estimate, stripped of proprietary data, would be useful.
Is improved DH language equivalent to expanded crew meals...or is it ten times as costly? Or could I turn back my buddy passes for 2 PS tickets a year? Is going to 20% DC equivalent to paying training at 5:15? Is an extra week of vacation equivalent to SC paying 1hr above guarantee? Does a 3 year seat lock with exceptions offset paying vacation at 5:15?
Is improved DH language equivalent to expanded crew meals...or is it ten times as costly? Or could I turn back my buddy passes for 2 PS tickets a year? Is going to 20% DC equivalent to paying training at 5:15? Is an extra week of vacation equivalent to SC paying 1hr above guarantee? Does a 3 year seat lock with exceptions offset paying vacation at 5:15?
05-04-2019 | 06:02 PM
#30
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From: 7ERB
I'm not sure that's what the OP wants, but it isn't anywhere close to what I want. I want information for my own decision making. . .
* * * * *
As our input to reps currently stands - completely agnostic of contractual value because we don't know the relative value/cost, negotiators are left doing the cost-benefit analysis alone. Maybe their decisions mirror my preferences and maybe they don't. There were at least some level of effort weighting questions in the polling. I think more information is better, and am quite sure that even rough valuation estimates would improve the quality and relevance of my own input and likely that of others.
* * * * *
As our input to reps currently stands - completely agnostic of contractual value because we don't know the relative value/cost, negotiators are left doing the cost-benefit analysis alone. Maybe their decisions mirror my preferences and maybe they don't. There were at least some level of effort weighting questions in the polling. I think more information is better, and am quite sure that even rough valuation estimates would improve the quality and relevance of my own input and likely that of others.
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