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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2882803)
No in don't think many understand that. Many are taking my posts as "giving up scope" as if the 2500 block hours in Japan are going to come back if we scream enough about it. If the Union is using the violation as leverage to improve JV equitable growth language that's another story but they haven't communicated that.
I'm not sure where you are getting believing management being out negotiated and Korean doing all the flying. USA-Korea flying is above JV minimums and growing significantly above it 2020 AF/KLM JV ASKs are near minimums but the JV flying has grown across the Atlantic along with Delta block hours. Moreover Delta is growing 15% in the UK next year. When you start to look at the facts it gets harder to justify the Korean Scope Violation as impactful on jobs vs just a technicality. If the combany loses the arbitration on the interpretation they'll simply ask where to send the check, something that could have been resolved months ago. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f35cf4da9b.jpg Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 2882848)
There is no reason this city pair could not have been operated with Delta metal. I would like to see the break down on KAL v DL code on this leg.
Network is just doing whatever works best for them without paying any mind to our PWA and banking on the fact that the system board doesn’t have the balls to award punitive damages and courts with smash the pilots if we engage in self help.... and the company’s read on the fecklessness of remedies available to labor is probably right. I applaud the MEC for communicating clearly that the Company is out of compliance with our agreement as well as the promises made to the US DOJ. |
Originally Posted by Big E 757
(Post 2882851)
That’s how it feels too. I don’t think MANY people are taking the “Oops, didn’t see that one” seriously.
Network does math. Unions have become so dependent on Federal Law that tens of thousands of families live or perish on the whims of politicians. I will honor the rules of this forum and hold my comments there. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 2882852)
Richard Anderson's main reason for staying away from KA was they demanded all the pacific flying. I saw him state this multiple times at multiple LCP meetings. Every other agreement fell through and we were left with KA. That is the real history of it.
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2882864)
I heard him make the exact same statement. It was also a issue with the China joint venture. Delta makes more money when we do the flying. The realities of having a worldwide network and the politics involved require sharing the flying with the countries involved.
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 2882852)
Richard Anderson's main reason for staying away from KA was they demanded all the pacific flying. I saw him state this multiple times at multiple LCP meetings. Every other agreement fell through and we were left with KA. That is the real history of it.
Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk |
Trp7,
You do realize the US/Korea market, as flown by Delta, was very near zero ... and Narita was a hub for connecting passengers right? Sailingfun, Pre School was admittedly a long time ago in my case, but my recall of “sharing” was not that one day Korea eats all my pudding and the next day China eats the Nutella sandwich and tosses me back a bit of crust. There has been no where near equitable distribution of JV growth. While we have management which is more interested in pumping cash out the door than investing in what is admittedly low margin, high cost, international flying, we are constantly ceding our future as pilots for Delta Air Lines. Scope isn’t an easy fix, but it is the only fix we have got. We have a lot of guys close to retirement. We have no retirement to lose, so I am fine with NOT flying to the last day. Point being, as KLM/AirFrance orders 777-300ER (not that they are the most efficient airline) it is pretty apparent that this career has plateaued as a junior nobody on a narrow body. Strike vote? Of course. But maybe just retire and go do something at some company that is actually excited about using capital to grow.... |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2882458)
Understood. According to Jim Graham, it was inadvertent:
"Quite simply, when we projected the baseline flying as part of our new relationship with Korean Airlines, we inadvertently missed Korean’s one flight between Japan and Honolulu. When this single flight is included in the calculation, it puts us temporarily below one measure of our baseline flying requirement for the JV." Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by tunes
(Post 2882687)
whereas the previous regimes would not inform the pilots of scope violations and tell the company 'it's ok just don't let it happen again' over and over and over....i'll stick with what this admin is doing.
There was, thankfully, just enough vocal membership resistance that the issue was eventually forced and it was headed to a slam dunk, expensive and permanent cease and desist by any arbitrator anywhere and everyone knew it. Just before that inevitable smackdown though, it was slow walked and eventually rolled into the next CBA for free, allowing them to keep doing it forever. It also happened during a time we were told we were overstaffed and "lucky we're not furloughing" over and over and over. When they gave it away for nothing, did we at least get flow down furlough protection in case we ever did? Nope. Non union pilots currently violating our scope had their jobs enshrined over ours permanently. Now some want to try and normalize scope violations as no biggie and have even convinced themselves to sympathize with them. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2882864)
I heard him make the exact same statement. It was also a issue with the China joint venture. Delta makes more money when we do the flying. The realities of having a worldwide network and the politics involved require sharing the flying with the countries involved.
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