FA Non-uniformity
01-07-2020, 05:13 AM
#171
Rerouted On Weekends
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 717A
Posts: 2,937
Originally Posted by CardboardCutout
This is the stuff they worry about at the Majors, kids.
01-07-2020, 05:19 AM
#172
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 654
Originally Posted by CBreezy
And the real irony... Half the people I see on here and other places are already talking about setting up yet strike center. There is talk about supporting other unions. Our FAs are actually having health problems with their uniforms and half of you only worry about what the customers think of the different uniforms. You complain that they are only doing it to get a union. Even if that were the case, which it isn't, we should support them without caring what the customers think. Especially while in the same breath threaten to strike after only 6 days past the amendable date.
01-07-2020, 07:22 AM
#174
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by DALFA
As of right now...yes...
Secondly, adding the employer would not change much of anything. Standard contract language with the vendor(s) includes "hold harmless and indemnification" clauses which effectively transfer the burden of defense of any claims to the vendor, as well as payouts for any successful claims for which the contracting entity may be held liable.
Thirdly, no need to lose your job, that is, if you want to work for the contracting entity. Georgia isn't a very labor friendly State.
01-07-2020, 09:36 AM
#175
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Fetal
Posts: 1,148
Originally Posted by ERflyer
A severe rash very precisely where the uniform touchs the skin, and no where else, on two people I’ve known over a time span of 3-4 (I can’t keep up) Delta uniform changes. Started Day 1 and before the problem was publicly reported. Never any problems before the purple with any clothing.
We would not even be having this discussion if it was pilots getting rashes from their uniforms they were forced to buy from a specific vendor.
Additionally, no one would wonder if it was psychosomatic. If another pilot told us, “This new uniform is giving me a rash.” every one of us would think, “Well that’s f—-ed up. Let’s fix the problem.”
And now the problem is being fixed. Just took a bit of meandering.
We would not even be having this discussion if it was pilots getting rashes from their uniforms they were forced to buy from a specific vendor.
Additionally, no one would wonder if it was psychosomatic. If another pilot told us, “This new uniform is giving me a rash.” every one of us would think, “Well that’s f—-ed up. Let’s fix the problem.”
And now the problem is being fixed. Just took a bit of meandering.
If there is a group of people, and some people in that group are experiencing actual physical reactions to the uniform, then they tell other people in that group about their symptoms, some of the people who hear of their symptoms will develop similar symptoms through no other mechanism than their brain manifesting the symptoms. That is the definition of psychosomatic. Psychosomatic does not mean the symptoms are not present, it means that they would not be present had the sufferer not been told about the presence of the symptoms in others.
So your friends could be experiencing actual reactions, and the knowledge of those reactions could cause actual physical symptoms in people learning of your friends’ symptoms without those people having an actual adverse reaction to any chemical present in the uniforms.
The presence of psychosomatic reactions within the group also doesn’t mean that there isn’t a problem with the uniforms. It’s just not correct to say that they reactions definitely aren’t psychosomatic.
Psychosomatic:
1 : of, relating to, concerned with, or involving both mind and body
the psychosomatic nature of man
— Herbert Ratner
2 : of, relating to, involving, or concerned with bodily symptoms caused by mental or emotional disturbance
psychosomatic symptoms
psychosomatic medicine
01-13-2020, 10:23 AM
#176
Gets Weekdays Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Economy Minus
Posts: 1,053
Originally Posted by GucciBoy
If there is a group of people, and some people in that group are experiencing actual physical reactions to the uniform, then they tell other people in that group about their symptoms, some of the people who hear of their symptoms will develop similar symptoms through no other mechanism than their brain manifesting the symptoms. That is the definition of psychosomatic. Psychosomatic does not mean the symptoms are not present, it means that they would not be present had the sufferer not been told about the presence of the symptoms in others.
So your friends could be experiencing actual reactions, and the knowledge of those reactions could cause actual physical symptoms in people learning of your friends’ symptoms without those people having an actual adverse reaction to any chemical present in the uniforms.
The presence of psychosomatic reactions within the group also doesn’t mean that there isn’t a problem with the uniforms. It’s just not correct to say that they reactions definitely aren’t psychosomatic.
Psychosomatic:
1 : of, relating to, concerned with, or involving both mind and body
the psychosomatic nature of man
— Herbert Ratner
2 : of, relating to, involving, or concerned with bodily symptoms caused by mental or emotional disturbance
psychosomatic symptoms
psychosomatic medicine
So your friends could be experiencing actual reactions, and the knowledge of those reactions could cause actual physical symptoms in people learning of your friends’ symptoms without those people having an actual adverse reaction to any chemical present in the uniforms.
The presence of psychosomatic reactions within the group also doesn’t mean that there isn’t a problem with the uniforms. It’s just not correct to say that they reactions definitely aren’t psychosomatic.
Psychosomatic:
1 : of, relating to, concerned with, or involving both mind and body
the psychosomatic nature of man
— Herbert Ratner
2 : of, relating to, involving, or concerned with bodily symptoms caused by mental or emotional disturbance
psychosomatic symptoms
psychosomatic medicine
What does wikipedia say about psychosomatic...oh wait, never mind.
01-13-2020, 12:08 PM
#177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 271
Originally Posted by DALFA
I think you're being ignorant in assuming that people are just wearing B&W just because. The reality is that as time passes more and more people have adverse reactions to the chemicals in the uniform. In the past month Delta has also made it much easier to get approved for the B&W. It could be because of the union drive, it could be a feeling of guilt...who knows.
As someone who is not in the B&W but as someone that has seen the severe reactions I would suggest you simply stay in your lane and worry about what you're wearing. You wouldn't want your daughter, mother, sister etc dealing with what our colleagues are going thru.
Many of our colleagues are having serious reactions to the chemicals in the uniforms and are also having self esteem issues because of what they're going thru. A suggestion I make to you and every other pilot is this: Every time you see a flight attendant in B&W compliment them on how great they look with the B&W. I don't care if you think they look frumpy or what...they can really use the self esteem boost.
It's bad enough we have to deal with passengers making ignorant comments, we really don't need our own coworkers questioning what is going on.
As someone who is not in the B&W but as someone that has seen the severe reactions I would suggest you simply stay in your lane and worry about what you're wearing. You wouldn't want your daughter, mother, sister etc dealing with what our colleagues are going thru.
Many of our colleagues are having serious reactions to the chemicals in the uniforms and are also having self esteem issues because of what they're going thru. A suggestion I make to you and every other pilot is this: Every time you see a flight attendant in B&W compliment them on how great they look with the B&W. I don't care if you think they look frumpy or what...they can really use the self esteem boost.
It's bad enough we have to deal with passengers making ignorant comments, we really don't need our own coworkers questioning what is going on.
Filler.
01-13-2020, 03:27 PM
#178
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: NYC ER
Posts: 472
Originally Posted by CBreezy
And the real irony... Half the people I see on here and other places are already talking about setting up yet strike center. There is talk about supporting other unions. Our FAs are actually having health problems with their uniforms and half of you only worry about what the customers think of the different uniforms. You complain that they are only doing it to get a union. Even if that were the case, which it isn't, we should support them without caring what the customers think. Especially while in the same breath threaten to strike after only 6 days past the amendable date.
Setting up a “Strike Center” isn’t about striking six days past amendable date. It’s about setting up a communication center in the next step of the negotiation process.
Nobody wants to strike.
I agree six days was rather quick but now we see how the company has chosen to work with us.
This is all gamesmanship and posturing.
We will get a great contract, it’s just going to take time.
As to the FA uniforms it’s basically none of our business, the company doesn’t care what we think.
Last edited by tomgoodman; 01-13-2020 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Inappropriate language
