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Old 01-11-2020 | 07:56 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by notEnuf
By default the union has to press for the long process to self help to further their leverage. Nowhere is it written that the NMB must be involved, but it is in fact a requirement for gains beyond what management dictates.
You kid when you discuss self help right? Have you followed the NMB at all the last 15 years?
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Old 01-11-2020 | 08:04 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by DeltaBubba
This is disgusting. Every item listed here are things that were for our protection. It's cute that you are willing to overlook all of the PWA abuse, Scope violations, and understaffing out our expense. Don't bring your management apologies here, though.
None of things he listed was a violation of the PWA. So the union is protecting us against non-PWA violations now?

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Old 01-11-2020 | 08:46 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
You kid when you discuss self help right? Have you followed the NMB at all the last 15 years?
I've had the pleasure of using self help. The drive towards it is our real leverage. You do realize that a PEB has a resolution also. When this escalates to that level all "good will" will be gone and any shareholder optimism will be extinguished.

https://nmb.gov/NMB_Application/wp-c...-flowchart.pdf

Last edited by notEnuf; 01-11-2020 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 01-11-2020 | 08:59 AM
  #164  
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Perhaps one strategy of the timing of this is to have the mediators establish the “zone of reasonableness” which they will then work towards before any contract gains are achieved at other carriers. Just a thought.
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Old 01-11-2020 | 09:17 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by asacimesp
Perhaps one strategy of the timing of this is to have the mediators establish the “zone of reasonableness” which they will then work towards before any contract gains are achieved at other carriers. Just a thought.
Spot on

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Old 01-11-2020 | 09:20 AM
  #166  
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But what is the “zone of reasonableness” based on? I’d posit that the zone is different for each company based on their relative profitability. Different from company to company.

Denny
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Old 01-11-2020 | 10:09 AM
  #167  
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If neither side petitions the NMB self help could begin as soon as negotiations are discontinued. The company runs the risk of immediate (10 days) self help if they fail to negotiate and don't go to the NMB. For this reason I think they should have to make the request on their own. The joint request serves no purpose. We have and are willing to schedule sessions and negotiate. The obvious meet in the middle over time that would result is not acceptable to the company so they have to take this course.
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Old 01-11-2020 | 10:58 AM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane
But what is the “zone of reasonableness” based on? I’d posit that the zone is different for each company based on their relative profitability. Different from company to company.

Denny
that is a very good question. Never in airline history have companies been making so much money. Is this something our Union is allowed to use as an argument in front of a mediator? In other words, if a mediator wants to base discussions on "past precedent", that precedent no longer exists. Delta is making so much $$, yet will a mediator see that as a reasonable argument? Hey judge, they're making money, we want some of it.

On the other hand, what reasonable judge/person would say "hey they're making 5+B a year and they want to reward their labor with scraps..."?

Last edited by Crown; 01-11-2020 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 01-11-2020 | 11:14 AM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by Crown
that is a very good question. Never in airline history have companies been making so much money. Is this something our Union is allowed to use as an argument in front of an arbitrator? In other words, if an arbitrator or mediator wants to base discussions on "past precedent", that precedent no longer exists. Delta is making so much $$, yet will a mediator or arbitrator see that as a reasonable argument? Hey judge, they're making money, we want some of it.

On the other hand, what reasonable judge/person would say "hey they're making 5+B a year and they want to reward their labor with scraps..."?
Very true. The company and certain characters here are coming at this like we’re still negotiating in bankruptcy times and limited profitability times. It was necessary then, but here we are now in a whole new world...
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Old 01-11-2020 | 11:28 AM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by Crown
that is a very good question. Never in airline history have companies been making so much money. Is this something our Union is allowed to use as an argument in front of an arbitrator? In other words, if an arbitrator or mediator wants to base discussions on "past precedent", that precedent no longer exists. Delta is making so much $$, yet will a mediator or arbitrator see that as a reasonable argument? Hey judge, they're making money, we want some of it.

On the other hand, what reasonable judge/person would say "hey they're making 5+B a year and they want to reward their labor with scraps..."?
You bring up some very interesting points but just to clarify we will have a mediator not an arbitrator. Big difference.

Scoop
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