I'm wondering what minimum rate of return the company would be willing to agree to if they are on the hook for any shortages. This is sounding worse, not better. Unknown but likely high plan fees, optional maybe, poor (guaranteed?) returns, out of my control, additional company expense liability (creating motivation to reduce or eliminate the plan and/or the liability in the event of a downturn) and IRS approval required are just the detractors I can think of now.

 

At this point, I’m fine with an IRS approved tax shelter for retirement. Even if managed by an outside group (gathering a fee), but growing more conservative in allocation to generate return (based on the group age).... But.... outside of company balance sheet, and there can be NO company control, investment in the company, loans to the company, and each investor (pilot) has their own acct.

A pilots plan for the pilots with only company interaction as deposits, has my interest.

Still need to see numbers on how it could work out vs investment outside. Once you max out the Roth 401K, self and spouse backdoor Roth IRA, HSA, and normal savings and taxable investments, it needs to be compelling information to not just do it yourself or with a CPA/CFP as a taxable retirement plan addition.

 

The average new hire age has been about 35. That means for 30 years, they CAN contribute up to $57,000. Yes, I understand that it will take a few years before they max out their 401k, but considering that most who come here have a 401k from a previous employer or some have a working spouse, by the time a new hire retires, their 401k should be in great shape. Your home, boat, and motorcycle should all be paid off, so your living costs should drop considerably. I understand that most of the seniority list does not fit the new hire profile, but over the next few years, most of the pilots on the list will fit the above situation (or did when they were hired).

There are way too many unknowns for what the union is proposing. How do we know it will be optional? How do we know what will happen when a different management team brings their case to a bankruptcy court? What is stopping Delta from under funding the account in the future?

These unknowns combined with the politics of the situation make this retirement proposal a tough sell. I'm not against it, but from my point of view, the risk level is unknown, the result is simply a nice to have bonus, and the amount of people who really want it is less than 51%.

Most have been burned by the industry before and we know the good times will end. At this point, I trust the future IRS more than I trust future Delta.

 

You can race Delta to the limit with 401a after tax contributions and hit the 415c Max about the time you have 65k in annual earnings. That gives you 45k that can be rolled into a Self Directed Roth IRA and the balance in the 401k plan. Once in the SD Roth IRA you can buy an interest in an apartment complex or many other choices outside of Fidelity.

 

yeah im in your camp.

 

The majority of us are. This is why this proposal makes me so angry. The union is pandering to a really vocal minority. We were given biased polls to try and get the result that the union wants. I agree with everything the union is doing except for our absurd retirement ask.

I just hope when we actually get a TA, there are still no concessions.

 

Lots of info in your email this afternoon. They specifically addressed several of the questions in these threads like estatability and the guaranteed return of 0%.

Specifically to the question of optional:

So they are confident that it won’t be mandatory, and I’m inclined to take them at their word. But it’s certainly not the type of optional I thought it would be. It’s not 4% this year, 6% next, 0% the year after. It’s all or nothing for the life of the contract. You chose to put all dpsp cash in the MBCBP or none for the 4-8 years we will be under the next agreement.

 

I'm impressed with the clear communication in TA 20-02. I'm in favor of the plan, and will exercise my option not to participate.

 

Yes they finally put out some seemingly solid information. It seems like this is something that could benefit a decent number of pilots and I don’t see the company strongly opposing it, as long as there isn’t an onerous funding requirement from them in down markets.

 

Agreed, I see no reason to be against the plan detailed in this latest email. I personally would opt out, but it's a good option to have. This email didn't mention anything about a minimum balance (plus up) though.