Early Out,Retirement,Furlough Negotiation
06-23-2020, 06:41 PM
#421
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
i highly doubt there is going to be an ALV cut in exchange for an EO based on how fired up the pilot group got about it. That being said, if there were, that would have to come to MEMRAT. If it were just an EO deal with nothing in exchange from us, I’d assume they would just put it through since we didnt give anything up.
06-23-2020, 06:43 PM
#422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,529
I’d say it depends how good it is. Social media isn’t a good indicator of who will take it. I’ve talked to a bunch of guys offline who said they will take it assuming its something like AA/WN
06-23-2020, 06:44 PM
#423
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
06-23-2020, 08:12 PM
#424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
It’s all in what’s in the package. Assuming it is a stand alone deal....
Denny
06-23-2020, 08:18 PM
#425
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
It might by a example that could impact you and me exclude any 330A pilots since that fleet will grow. Would you be ok with that with no vote?
If the union ratifies a new contract for 4 years with a 1.5% raise each year and no concessions would that require ratification?
If the union ratifies a new contract for 4 years with a 1.5% raise each year and no concessions would that require ratification?
06-23-2020, 08:25 PM
#426
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
Can anyone explain why the same people pining for a big Early Out package / retirement a few weeks ago are now the biggest folks fighting an ALV adjustment?
I mean, they were wanting to transfer about $2 billion from one end of the list to them (some (MOD EDIT) even suggested just giving them all the pilot profit sharing) until all of a sudden when the decided that adjusting the ALV to fund some of that was something they didn't want.
Just looking for logical consistency and finding none. Is the theory that international isn't coming back, so they desire 72 hours for doing nothing instead of 65? In either event, as I pointed out months ago, many senior pilots have already flown their last Delta flight.
Maybe I answer my own query by rationalizing that we have XX,XXX Delta pilots - Early Out, equals a number. When/If that number exceeds pilots needed then the choice is either a lowered ALV OR displacements and a couple thousand on the street. As far as management is concerned, it's the same $ we just decide how to distribute it.
This reminds me of the senior FO's who bid with LCA. Not that many take advantage, but we preferred to keep that select group rather than redistribute $ through the entire seniority list.
I'm on the side of keeping as much of this airline and list as intact as we can. If 7 hours a month for six or eight months is the price of unity we've got an opportunity to be noble.
My hope is that nobody is watching the news today which not only shows much of the planet not wanting American travelers but some States not wanting them either. The nation's management of the pandemic is hurting us. The timing is terrible.
I mean, they were wanting to transfer about $2 billion from one end of the list to them (some (MOD EDIT) even suggested just giving them all the pilot profit sharing) until all of a sudden when the decided that adjusting the ALV to fund some of that was something they didn't want.
Just looking for logical consistency and finding none. Is the theory that international isn't coming back, so they desire 72 hours for doing nothing instead of 65? In either event, as I pointed out months ago, many senior pilots have already flown their last Delta flight.
Maybe I answer my own query by rationalizing that we have XX,XXX Delta pilots - Early Out, equals a number. When/If that number exceeds pilots needed then the choice is either a lowered ALV OR displacements and a couple thousand on the street. As far as management is concerned, it's the same $ we just decide how to distribute it.
This reminds me of the senior FO's who bid with LCA. Not that many take advantage, but we preferred to keep that select group rather than redistribute $ through the entire seniority list.
I'm on the side of keeping as much of this airline and list as intact as we can. If 7 hours a month for six or eight months is the price of unity we've got an opportunity to be noble.
My hope is that nobody is watching the news today which not only shows much of the planet not wanting American travelers but some States not wanting them either. The nation's management of the pandemic is hurting us. The timing is terrible.
Last edited by Scoop; 06-24-2020 at 04:43 AM.
06-24-2020, 12:29 AM
#428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
[QUOTE=Bucking Bar;3079881]Can anyone explain why the same people pining for a big Early Out package / retirement a few weeks ago are now the biggest folks fighting an ALV adjustment?
What is an “ALV adjustment”?
Is that your sell job on a huge concession of an ALV REDUCTION?
Well over 95% of Delta pilots oppose the concession you and your handful of buddies are selling for management. All of our reps are stating they receive more pilot feedback than they have ever received opposing concessions.
No other pilot group, not a single one, has made concessions.
What is an “ALV adjustment”?
Is that your sell job on a huge concession of an ALV REDUCTION?
Well over 95% of Delta pilots oppose the concession you and your handful of buddies are selling for management. All of our reps are stating they receive more pilot feedback than they have ever received opposing concessions.
No other pilot group, not a single one, has made concessions.
06-24-2020, 01:42 AM
#429
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,387
[QUOTE=gzsg;3079954]
Many other employees are forced to take a 25% decrease in work hours and that’s not a concession. Does that mean you don’t consider a ALV reduction a concession?
In addition many employees will have exhausted their unemployment benefits. They might need those later in the year.
Can anyone explain why the same people pining for a big Early Out package / retirement a few weeks ago are now the biggest folks fighting an ALV adjustment?
What is an “ALV adjustment”?
Is that your sell job on a huge concession of an ALV REDUCTION?
Well over 95% of Delta pilots oppose the concession you and your handful of buddies are selling for management. All of our reps are stating they receive more pilot feedback than they have ever received opposing concessions.
No other pilot group, not a single one, has made concessions.
What is an “ALV adjustment”?
Is that your sell job on a huge concession of an ALV REDUCTION?
Well over 95% of Delta pilots oppose the concession you and your handful of buddies are selling for management. All of our reps are stating they receive more pilot feedback than they have ever received opposing concessions.
No other pilot group, not a single one, has made concessions.
In addition many employees will have exhausted their unemployment benefits. They might need those later in the year.
06-24-2020, 03:43 AM
#430
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 105
>>Can anyone explain why the same people pining for a big Early Out package / retirement a few weeks ago are now the biggest folks fighting an ALV adjustment?<<
I think these are guys considering sticking around. They want the folks ahead of them gone so they can move up (or at least keep their current seat) and the ability to capitalize on it by flying a lot.
I'm not in that category btw..
I think these are guys considering sticking around. They want the folks ahead of them gone so they can move up (or at least keep their current seat) and the ability to capitalize on it by flying a lot.
I'm not in that category btw..
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