Early Out,Retirement,Furlough Negotiation
06-26-2020, 11:55 AM
#581
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Denny, RE memrat. I agree it may be a tough sell. But it might pass muster.....here is why I believe what I say. Any vote will be taken prior to furlough therefore all potential furloughees get a vote. Unlike what some posters on here say, when faced with reduced ALV and no furlough, they will grasp at that straw in an overwhelming majority. Next up, anybody who got displaced to a lower/much lower position.....same/ same in hopes of a recast of the MOAD and they keep their seat/position. The rest of the group will be split due to a myriad of reasons. But it is those first two groups, that will tip the scales. Call it 3000 at the bottom, combined with possibly 2000 that MOAD schwacked, and you are at about 5000 "for" the deal....all in an attempt to maximize their $$$(as most pilots will). So I would handicap it as a possibility of passing memrat.
July is already settled, so UNAs would effectively be risking two months of reduced pay (rumored 15% reduction or 12 hours/monthly) for August and September, for a chance at keeping our jobs and not losing the opportunity to work for ~2-years of pay. Assuming 6 months of those two years are factored at 60 hours (reduced ALV) and the remainder is factored at normal ALV, then that equates to ~1,656 hours of work over the next 24-months, not including August and September.
So I’m essence, by sacrificing ~24-hours of pay, UNAs have a shot at preserving ~1,600+ hours of pay, which is over 60:1 risk/reward ratio. In most ventures in life, financial or otherwise, one would be wise to take any wager greater than 2:1. So if people are able to separate emotion from the pure mathematics of it, then this is virtually a no-brainer. Even if we were almost guaranteed to furlough “with” an ALV reduction, it would still be worth rolling the dice for a shot at keeping our jobs based solely on the risk/reward.
06-26-2020, 12:13 PM
#582
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by beis77
I agree with this. As a member of the UNA club, I’ve done the math, and agree that I’d likely vote in favor of a temporary ALV reduction, if it could mitigate furloughs, and there’s was iron clad language guaranteeing as much. I’ll explain why. Mathematically speaking, anyone that is specifically a UNA would benefit from the ALV reduction as a mechanism to mitigate furloughs, simply from a risk/reward/financial management standpoint.
July is already settled, so UNAs would effectively be risking two months of reduced pay (rumored 15% reduction or 12 hours/monthly) for August and September, for a chance at keeping our jobs and not losing the opportunity to work for ~2-years of pay. Assuming 6 months of those two years are factored at 60 hours (reduced ALV) and the remainder is factored at normal ALV, then that equates to ~1,656 hours of work over the next 24-months, not including August and September.
So I’m essence, by sacrificing ~24-hours of pay, UNAs have a shot at preserving ~1,600+ hours of pay, which is over 60:1 risk/reward ratio. In most ventures in life, financial or otherwise, one would be wise to take any wager greater than 2:1. So if people are able to separate emotion from the pure mathematics of it, then this is virtually a no-brainer. Even if we were almost guaranteed to furlough “with” an ALV reduction, it would still be worth rolling the dice for a shot at keeping our jobs based solely on the risk/reward.
July is already settled, so UNAs would effectively be risking two months of reduced pay (rumored 15% reduction or 12 hours/monthly) for August and September, for a chance at keeping our jobs and not losing the opportunity to work for ~2-years of pay. Assuming 6 months of those two years are factored at 60 hours (reduced ALV) and the remainder is factored at normal ALV, then that equates to ~1,656 hours of work over the next 24-months, not including August and September.
So I’m essence, by sacrificing ~24-hours of pay, UNAs have a shot at preserving ~1,600+ hours of pay, which is over 60:1 risk/reward ratio. In most ventures in life, financial or otherwise, one would be wise to take any wager greater than 2:1. So if people are able to separate emotion from the pure mathematics of it, then this is virtually a no-brainer. Even if we were almost guaranteed to furlough “with” an ALV reduction, it would still be worth rolling the dice for a shot at keeping our jobs based solely on the risk/reward.
06-26-2020, 12:13 PM
#583
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,100
That’s all assuming that lowering ALV would do ANYTHING to mitigate furloughs, which I don’t think it would. From my perspective, furloughs are a near certainty, so your math doesn’t add up for me.
The company has said over and over that we’re going to be a smaller company. Why would I not believe them?
The company has said over and over that we’re going to be a smaller company. Why would I not believe them?
06-26-2020, 12:45 PM
#588
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,012
We will see if MEMRAT is required for a voluntary program or if, since the negotiators returned a deal they directed, they have the ability to publish the deets.
06-26-2020, 12:55 PM
#589
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,133
Originally Posted by tunes
as much as I'd love for SILs to happen i dont think they are going to happen here. Management has dug their heels extremely deep in the sand on this one to try and push off the FA union.
06-26-2020, 01:13 PM
#590
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,291
TA page on FB say NC has TA on EOP.... expect words from MEC ASAP.
In ohther news, if the VP is such a VIP, shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT? 'Cause if it leaks to the VC he could end up MIA, and then we'd all be put on KP.
In ohther news, if the VP is such a VIP, shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT? 'Cause if it leaks to the VC he could end up MIA, and then we'd all be put on KP.
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