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Quote:

Originally Posted by OOfff (Post 3209266)

honest question: what lesson are you hoping people learned from this that would apply to a DZ retirement carve out?

Compassion and understanding that might temper that selfish greed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 3209274)

Longevity pay ain’t longevity pay if positions pay separately. 12 years at DAL is 12 years. Delta hires captains, amirite?

No that doesn't quite work, and you know that. There would have to be a difference in left seat/right seat simply due to authority and responsibility. However... I would also run the scale out 42 years rather than the 12 we have now and graduate the pay increases higher in the first 15 years. That puts more money in the FOs pockets sooner (TVM is not a myth no matter how some like to say it is)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 3209356)

Compassion and understanding that might temper that selfish greed.

So it's selfish greed if someone else wants it, but not if YOU want it. Got it, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 3209285)

Scope protection is the tide that lifts most boats. With appropriate pay, this career offers plenty for retirement, even if it isn’t all specifically tagged “retirement.” Everyone has different needs - save or spend as much as you’d like. My limited polling leads me to believe the true dead-zoners are either gone or so limited in numbers as to be a small “special interest” group that needn’t drive all of this pilot group’s priorities. Obviously, vote for the representatives and TAs you find most appealing. Before covid, plenty of pilots were leaving early to sail off into the proverbial sunset - that tells me the retirement pain has had abundant time to heal. I know it isn’t what was “promised”, and we’ve all now seen what “promises” to new hires are worth in this industry. Painful lessons all around, for sure.

While this might be true, do you think it right to marginalize the remaining DZers? Their sacrifices made this place a hell of a lot better than it otherwise would be.

I am under no illusions that there will be any sacrifice on the part of the group for anything for the DZers. That message was made loud and clear pre WuFlu. I just wondered if attitudes changed with the crisis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 3209356)

Compassion and understanding that might temper that selfish greed.

that sounds awfully subjective, and very much like you are in fact advocating for one position over another

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJP27 (Post 3209362)

So it's selfish greed if someone else wants it, but not if YOU want it. Got it, thanks.

Yeah, that’s what it seems like.

While we’re on the subject, is there anyone in the union that I can reach out to who might be able to explain what metrics define a ‘deadzoner’ and how many of these people we have and how much we need to help them? Surely the union is tracking/aware of this group and their specific needs, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 3209303)

Deadzoner (singular) retirement is not an issue. The VEOP was your (and my) chance at earlier than 65 retirement with company paid income.

Except that I wasn't old enough for it to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown (Post 3209305)

simply put - you had your chance for a different retirement. You didn't take it. You can't have your bread and your roses too. Sorry JB.

Awesome.

Thanks for the data points. Ya'll have a great weekend

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxsurf (Post 3209368)

lol. Now that's funny!

For a guy whose delta captain income doesn’t even cover your tax bill, this seems like a bit more than asking others to have compassion for your plight

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOfff (Post 3209373)

For a guy whose delta captain income doesn’t even cover your tax bill, this seems like a bit more than asking others to have compassion for your plight

I wasn't asking for me.

and it's not about the money.

Thanks.

Why are you so angry about everything?