Originally Posted by FangsF15 (Post 3394565)

Collectively, yes. But as individuals, which he was responding as, not at all.

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3394593)

He said we should reject the first offer because the second one would be better. The only way to do that is if we all vote no.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3394599)

Last contract was voted down due to profit sharing and sick concessions. Also trip pulls for OE from bid packet.

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3394538)

And if you always say no, the company will not negotiate in good faith and agree to less on the first go around because they know they'll have to wheel and deal later. And it artificially drags out negotiations.

Originally Posted by crewdawg (Post 3394615)

Isn't that what they already do?

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3394623)

It was a major screw up by the MEC and NC last round. They clearly didn't have any idea what the pilots wanted. But if we go into negotiations from now on always saying no, there is no motivation for the company or the union to put any effort into the first TA.

Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad (Post 3394666)

This, I will cautiously optimistic because the NC and MEC know we demand a good contract reflecting what we have put into the operation. That being said if they send over a turn sandwich I will not be afraid to vote no.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3394805)

When they do send a TA, it is almost always disappointing. Then the sales job starts and they start explaining why every section is worse than expected. Throw in a retro check or signing bonus big enough to buy a new car and the vote usually turns out yes. The deal we voted down was 6 months early and had no bonus or retro money so it was much easier to vote down.

Originally Posted by Fly4FunAA (Post 3394834)

Reading this forum is definitely insightful as I’m trying to decide between Southwest or Delta.

Originally Posted by DeltaboundRedux (Post 3394597)

Not actually trying to start a fight or derail the thread.

For those here last contract, however, it was a bit of a head scratcher to have to ignore your negotiating committee who crosses their hearts and hope to die that this is the best, final offer and you have to vote yes....except it wasn't, and most didn't.

Do your own due diligence, I guess. Going to be a good long while before we see anything anyway, IMHO.

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 3394866)

A lot of things have changed since TA1. Pro/Con papers. The MEC actually has to endorse an agreement before sending it to the pilots. MEMRAT for letters of agreements. You act like it's still the old days.

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3394623)

It was a major screw up by the MEC and NC last round. They clearly didn't have any idea what the pilots wanted. But if we go into negotiations from now on always saying no, there is no motivation for the company or the union to put any effort into the first TA.

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 3394866)

A lot of things have changed since TA1. Pro/Con papers. The MEC actually has to endorse an agreement before sending it to the pilots. MEMRAT for letters of agreements. You act like it's still the old days.

Originally Posted by Breadcream (Post 3394328)

“Industry-best” compared to a bunch of 5 to 6 year old contracts…big whoop. Enough with the wordy updates…get it done already so I can vote “no” on it.

Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw (Post 3394481)

Honey Badger beats them all. He just doesn't give a $hi%. He's so nasty.

Originally Posted by vyperdriver (Post 3394919)

I would take our first world problems over a 10+ year upgrade and very limited long term outlook on financial income and trip experience (i.e. international etc.). Love my bros at Southwest, I have some great friends there, but like the rest of us, it's not the same it was in the 80's/90's.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3395071)

I'm still waiting to upgrade here in our biggest hub. Going on 15 years. Can barely hold the plane those guys fly at Southwest but would be bottom reserve. I guess I fail to see the difference.

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 3395073)

And when you can finally hold a line you'll have to gut out trips that have a heavy influence of retired Maddog and Minidog flying.

NYC73N flying might be the best kept secret at the Widget. I should be quiet but I'm going to around 40% after this last AE with the Widebody AE still to come.

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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3395071)

I'm still waiting to upgrade here in our biggest hub. Going on 15 years. Can barely hold the plane those guys fly at Southwest but would be bottom reserve. I guess I fail to see the difference.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3394924)

We had pro/con papers back in 2001.

Originally Posted by crewdawg (Post 3394939)

I'm with you on the dudes shouldn't always be auto no vote on the first TA, that's a ridiculous outlook. I certainly don't expect them to bend to every item we want, but I just don't think the company is actually negotiating in good faith when they unnecessarily drag things out, e.g, "last, best offer," that wasn't... Even worse if they actually use phrases like, "if we give it to you, we'd have to give it to other employees."

Last time, weren't some on the MEC "against" the TA, yet opted to send it to the pilot group anyway?

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 3395073)

And when you can finally hold a line you'll have to gut out trips that have a heavy influence of retired Maddog and Minidog flying.

NYC73N flying might be the best kept secret at the Widget. I should be quiet but I'm going to around 40% after this last AE with the Widebody AE still to come.

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Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL (Post 3395248)

If you can handle the commute which is really pretty easy from most points the base and flying is excellent. Did it for 2.5yrs junior 73NA and loved it most days. I even managed long call from home in the Midwest without missing a trip [emoji6], but scheduling and staffing wasn’t as bad back then

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 3395257)

Yup, especially if you commute from a city in close proximity with a decent amount of flights. I would not recommend NYC73NA to West Coasters and absolutely would not recommend to anyone with a double leg commute

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Originally Posted by Fly4FunAA (Post 3394834)

Reading this forum is definitely insightful as I’m trying to decide between Southwest or Delta.

Originally Posted by bode (Post 3395258)

Double leg commutes are the devil. Most draining thing I’ve done in a long time. Damn near need to commute in the day prior.

On a separate but same note, is PNS to LGA a seasonal flight? Just noticed it the other day.


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Originally Posted by JustNarced (Post 3395348)

Imagine doing it without positive space!

Originally Posted by Fly4FunAA (Post 3394834)

Reading this forum is definitely insightful as I’m trying to decide between Southwest or Delta.

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 3395786)

What is it that you find interesting about LUV? I'm genuinely curious as after my 6 years on the 737, I had had enough of that. Of course the 71 hours in the Tokyo Hilton layover isn't exactly all that great at the moment, but if you have a long career ahead of you, you had better love the 737. I know that some of the LUV guys will come on here and tell you how great it is and all that, but variety is the spice of life.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3395071)

I'm still waiting to upgrade here in our biggest hub. Going on 15 years. Can barely hold the plane those guys fly at Southwest but would be bottom reserve. I guess I fail to see the difference.

Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3395846)

the junior ATL73NA once all pilots convert from the last AE will be a 11/2017 hire.

an 07 hire would be between 84-88%

on the 320 an 07 hire would be between 65-73%

an 11/2014 hire can hold every NB and ER A category in the system.

I completely understand waiting to upgrade until you can hold XX%, but once all conversions happen, every NB A category in the system will have a CA hired in or after 2015, not even remotely the same as 10 years to take first upgrade

Originally Posted by Myfingershurt (Post 3395912)

Every category or every aircraft? Cause I’m a 2015 hire and i can’t hold ER captain in Atlanta or Detroit even after all conversions from latest bid.

Originally Posted by Myfingershurt (Post 3395912)

Every category or every aircraft? Cause I’m a 2015 hire and i can’t hold ER captain in Atlanta or Detroit even after all conversions from latest bid.

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3395822)

A lot of people have no interest in transoceanic. And while it isn't the best aircraft, it's not nearly as bad as some people say it is. It's capable, reliable, and if it pays enough, who cares? I'd fly a crj for the right price.

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 3396030)

No I get that long haul isn't for everyone. My point was that you had better be damned sure that you DON'T want to EVER do that kind of flying if you choose LUV over DAL, because the option is gone forever if you do. And I have flown the 737. I'll take an Airbus all day long and twice on Sunday over it. I'll definitely take a 757 over it. And your crj hyperbole is just silly.

Originally Posted by Myfingershurt (Post 3395912)

Every category or every aircraft? Cause I’m a 2015 hire and i can’t hold ER captain in Atlanta or Detroit even after all conversions from latest bid.

Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 3396162)

If I was #1 or < #5 on a CR9 getting trips I want at our rates I’d take it. The idea that whatever is behind the door is irrelevant was your calling card.

Originally Posted by freezingflyboy (Post 3396220)

Wouldn't hold my breath on that Detroit ER captain spot if I were you...

Originally Posted by thrust (Post 3392439)

Sort of.

At AA, reserves flying “OG” (over guarantee, straight pay) or “PR” (premium reserve, 150%) must touch a day off. Most NB pilots, which is where the vast majority of the premium is, know this and don’t even put in a ballot for OG… they put in for PR only. If/when crew scheduling can’t fill a trip with long/short call pilots (or “MU”, lineholder straight pay makeup), it will try obviously to fill the trip OG. But since there aren’t any OG takers, it goes PR. Tons of PR going out every day, all NB domiciles and fleets. A typical strategy is to bid short reserve blocks (3-4 days), pick up 3-4 day PR trip over that footprint starting day prior, repeat throughout month. Requires you to actually go fly… but you were going to get used every reserve day anyway, might as well get paid more for it, and everything goes on top of reserve guarantee. Where AA reserve lags: no payback days, can’t do that rolling thunder thing, can’t bid more than 6-7 day reserve blocks if that’s something you want to do.

The company more or less stopped the method by which lineholders could get premium several days in advance. I don’t know why… for a while they’d recognize a lack of reserves upcoming and you could get premium trips 2+ days in advance. That method could always return if they get desperate enough. Now, they only offer premium to lineholders the day prior through a slightly different system. Lineholders tend not to want the 3-5 day trips as “PM” (lineholder 150% premium) so those go PR instead, and the turns and easy 1-1s go PM. Same concept, company would love to give out open time as MU but that doesn’t work when almost everyone is only in for PM. Nice part of AA system: no premium “trigger”, people can and do drop their entire schedules and fly nothing but premium. Senior NB FOs are killing it. AA lags: only 150% versus DAL 200%, although sounds like AA will match whenever a new contract is signed. AA has a silly punitive sick offset thing that’s complete BS, but that’s also going away. We have a “conflict” function akin to your GSWC but it’s rare.

TL,DR: to say premium is “usually done in advance and they get grabbed by line holders” is not exactly true and lacks context.