Airline Pilot Central Forums

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- Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)

- - 4% Pay raise (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/137042-4-pay-raise.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3390146)

Maybe if the pilots completely lose enthusiasm things will change.

Love your sense of humor!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nantonaku (Post 3390144)

Are you saying that Delta is still able to handpick any pilot they want? Or are you saying no college degree requirement, a new flow, a uniform allowance and hotels during training are starting to show the cracks in the fantasy world that Delta will always have an unlimited supply of the most experienced pilots knocking on the front door?

No, I never said we did. Honestly, up until recently, every major got to handpick their pilots.

Never in recent history have all the majors been hiring so many pilots all at once. We aren’t perfect, but the grass isn’t as green as some think everywhere else. Arguing we will have a tougher time recruiting pilots than others right now isn’t true. Everyone is in the same boat. There’s a segment of all pilots that only want to be with one company. We are fighting for those undecided ones.

Hopefully (although I doubt) the company recognizes this and stops dragging their feet with our long overdue contract.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3390146)

AA blows delta away in retirements (quick advancement). UA blows Delta away in WB opportunities since they have a bunch more and new hires are getting them.

Nothing wrong with military pilots but if they've never flown 121 there's a quite a bit of a learning curve in training compared to those with lots of 121 experience. Do I really need to explain this? Look, I know you love your company and feel the need to defend it, but even you have to admit this is crap today.

If management was serious they would sit down with the union and quit stonewalling. Seems they owe the pilots at least 7% raises on day 1 now, but they have to keep up the façade that unions are bad and you get rewarded by keeping them out.

Maybe if the pilots completely lose enthusiasm things will change.

Just pointing out that we are looking to need at least a 15% increases to our current 2019 pay rates just to keep up with the losses due to inflation from 2020-2022. Assuming we actually get something in place by 2023 we're looking at close to 20%, and that doesn't account for any actual raises to the rates. So realistically we need 25% increases on day 1 of the contract to put us even with inflation + a 4-5% raise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3390146)

I don’t need to defend mother D. Not my job. I do like to keep the record straight. I’m no company cheerleader. Ed’s 1200 bucks last month didn’t give him enough good will to do management’s job.

According to the fleet count from the contact comparison, AA has 113 WBs to our 136 WBs. (We have more on order than they do as well). Not trying to start a ****ing match, but let’s be honest with numbers.

Regarding retirements, AA is retiring 27.7% of their seniority list in the next 5 years (Jan 22 - Dec 26)

If you include only 1400 of our VEOPs, combined with our retirements from Jan 22 - Dec 26…we are retiring 27.7% of our seniority list.

Again, not trying to start and internet war, but context and numbers are important.

To be perfectly frank, I’m fine with Delta giving out raises to noncons. We need talent at all levels and functions; I think we’ve all seen/felt the effects of the early out brain drain, and it’s not fun.

That being said, it is a slap in the face and we better get ours, and soon. Each day that passes without a TA, the price goes up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf424 (Post 3390167)

One minor point, our WBs include 763 which pay only slightly more than 321/739, while AAs WBs are all 777/787. I’ve usually considered WB pay as the WB number when doing my own math.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3390146)

Maybe if the pilots completely lose enthusiasm things will change.

Not until the last Moakie retires.

If you're not getting at least 10% a year then you're losing money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotBases (Post 3390180)

One minor point, our WBs include 763 which pay only slightly more than 321/739, while AAs WBs are all 777/787. I’ve usually considered WB pay as the WB number when doing my own math.

That is true. The original discussion was about WB opportunities though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3390137)

Lol.

I follow these forums quite a bit. It seems you have the reputation amongst your pilots of being a management toadie. So it's no surprise you would say that.

I made a comment the other day that they aren't having a recruiting problem since the classes are full, but my buddies over there who are actually involved in recruiting say that they are getting quantity but not quality. Apparently the days are gone when Delta was viewed as the best. Candidates with multiple offers are turning Delta down (20%) and going elsewhere. They have all heard about the crap trips and constant face slaps from management, like this deal today. The only ones you're going to keep getting are the die hard Delta or nothing kool aid drinkers who suicide rush the company because "it's the best" without caring about trip quality, advancement, or wide body opportunities, which UA and AA currently blow Delta away with.

But maybe that's what management wants. Pilots who will just drink the kool aid and not question anything. Like the non union employees. Who were just rewarded today.

I hear from my friends who are instructors that the quality of new hires has gotten so bad they are having personality/attitude issues and extra training. Apparently the lions share are now military guys without 121 time or medium to low time RJ pilots, who were never high on the maturity scale. Experienced pilots are taking their experience elsewhere.

So yeah, management shills like you will shout there's no recruiting problem, but the truth beneath the surface says otherwise. Expect that to continue unless your management wakes up and starts treating pilots fairly.

Nice rant. Doesn't change the fact at all that none of it is our problem. If the quality of the recruit gets bad enough, I can guarantee you that they will bust their OEs and THAT will get management's attention. But in a sense you are right as a friend told me he has extended about 1/month on OEs for more time. When I was on that same airplane, I probably extended 1 every other year.

Still not our problem. But we do need to pay LCPs a LOT more money.