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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/137280-any-latest-greatest-about-delta-part-2-a.html)

gloopy 05-23-2023 05:02 AM


Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 3640332)
It may not result in a staple but I doubt any arbitrated settlement would have any RJ guys any higher than 80%. JMHO.

https://i.imgflip.com/7mtg5r.jpg

GogglesPisano 05-23-2023 06:30 AM


Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 3640332)
First off Sailing is one of the most knowledgeable posters on here and we all benefit from his input. I don't always agree with him but always appreciate his input. If you think he is wrong feel free to point it out.

Agreed. Sailing is right way more than he is wrong.

A stat few here can boast of.

FangsF15 05-23-2023 08:01 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3640331)
The union would not have any ability to insure that outcome. If tomorrow the company announces a merger the process is simple. We attempt to negotiate a merged list. If not successful it goes to binding arbitration. No airline would agree to a staple instead of arbitration because you can’t due worse...

Except 9E's MEC has already done exactly that, in a joint resolution of both DL and 9E's MEC's. Agenda Item 23-99, which reads in part (emphasis added):

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED such working group will neither consider nor recommend any action that would result in any Endeavor pilot being placed on the seniority list ahead of Delta pilots or any action that would diminish the rights afforded to Endeavor pilots by EDV LOA 125 and EDV LOA 129, and...

Tropical 05-23-2023 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 3640325)
Nice try, but as usual you fail.

Is that your super mature "I know you are but what am I" response?

Cognitive decline is real.

Tropical 05-23-2023 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by FangsF15 (Post 3640405)
Except 9E's MEC has already done exactly that, in a joint resolution of both DL and 9E's MEC's. Agenda Item 23-99, which reads in part (emphasis added):

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED such working group will neither consider nor recommend any action that would result in any Endeavor pilot being placed on the seniority list ahead of Delta pilots or any action that would diminish the rights afforded to Endeavor pilots by EDV LOA 125 and EDV LOA 129, and...

And the AirTran MEC also agreed to a staple with SWA, as the pilot groups sole bargaining agent. That would be a hard nut to crack in a rogue lawsuit. It has been done and it can be done again. In all of the recent contentious mergers it was because the union refused to go along with it

FangsF15 05-23-2023 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by Tropical (Post 3640418)
And the AirTran MEC also agreed to a staple with SWA, as the pilot groups sole bargaining agent. That would be a hard nut to crack in a rogue lawsuit. It has been done and it can be done again. In all of the recent contentious mergers it was because the union refused to go along with it

I was specifically refuting sailing's assertion that "No airline would agree to a staple instead of arbitration" as demonstrably false. 9E already has.

But to your point, the only path to that is a disgruntled 9E pilot suing their own MEC. If that's true, what would stop a disgruntled former-9E-and-current-DL pilot (who would be leapfrogged with a successful suit) from countersuing and winning?

CBreezy 05-23-2023 09:14 AM


Originally Posted by FangsF15 (Post 3640436)
I was specifically refuting sailing's assertion that "No airline would agree to a staple instead of arbitration" as demonstrably false. 9E already has.

But to your point, the only path to that is a disgruntled 9E pilot suing their own MEC. If that's true, what would stop a disgruntled former-9E-and-current-DL pilot (who would be leapfrogged with a successful suit) from countersuing and winning?

And this is what I'm saying. We can argue all day about the nuance of the ALPA merger policy. It's just all an academic exercise because unless AA or UA decides to park all subcontractors, we aren't going to park ours. But let's say Delta suddenly decides they want to bring all the Endeavor airplanes and pilots to mainline. Knowing there will be a potential legal battle and JCBA in-fighting etc, it makes no sense to do a merger. There is no incentive at all for Delta to "merge" the two lists in the same sense as SWA/Air Tran or Spirit/JB.

sailingfun 05-23-2023 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by Tropical (Post 3640418)
And the AirTran MEC also agreed to a staple with SWA, as the pilot groups sole bargaining agent. That would be a hard nut to crack in a rogue lawsuit. It has been done and it can be done again. In all of the recent contentious mergers it was because the union refused to go along with it

I have read it. I don’t believe it is binding if Delta announced a merger between the airlines. It’s intended to facilitate flying the aircraft under our seniority list via working group proposals. It applies only to proposals the working group might suggest to management.
If a merger is announced ALPA merger policy would apply.

NuGuy 05-23-2023 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by Tropical (Post 3640418)
And the AirTran MEC also agreed to a staple with SWA, as the pilot groups sole bargaining agent. That would be a hard nut to crack in a rogue lawsuit. It has been done and it can be done again. In all of the recent contentious mergers it was because the union refused to go along with it

The AirTran/SWA was not a staple. It was, in some ways, unfavorable to parts of their seniority list, but it was not a staple.

Same goes for the TWA/AMR merger. Ugly, yes, staple, no.

gloopy 05-23-2023 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by Tropical (Post 3640418)
And the AirTran MEC also agreed to a staple with SWA, as the pilot groups sole bargaining agent. That would be a hard nut to crack in a rogue lawsuit. It has been done and it can be done again. In all of the recent contentious mergers it was because the union refused to go along with it

DL EDV would be ALPA ALPA. AT SWA was non ALPA for either side.

This would be playing with fire. Sure, someone publihed some quip about "the working group won't" do whatever. That may mean very little. Too much risk.


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