DTW had a trip in Nov with a first day of 7:40. ATL had a few right at or over 7.

We have a single one day worth 7+52 and have only seen it used on the B side. Highest time one day we've seen in a long time. On 350B it's 16+15.

Not sure if anyone processed one, but if they did…. With EDP (which would pay out on a 1-day PB “wash”), I’ve seen trips over 9. ATL-AUA, for example.

Would you get EDP if you dropped a 4 day with the first day, if the first day had the EDP duty period?

Yes but the original person asking about the highest trip values seen quoted a post specifically talking about the 717, so my answer was only specifically about 717 trips. There are definitely higher block first days/1 day trips on the other NB fleets.

No, you only get soft pay items (sit, EDP, etc) if you use enough PB days to cover the entire rotation. Thus a 1 day rotation will pay those items with a single PB day and is generally going to be the highest value you will find outside of WB trips.

This seems counterproductive. They are going to pay double on the trip being used but you still have several PBs to cash in, meaning you will still get the PB value eventually. Then they will possibly pay more double pay for those but at a delayed timeframe? You would think they would be happy to just pay the PB value and move on. Sounds like they are paying triple pay for PBs and spreading the wealth. I must be missing something.

plus over a hour of edp so close to 8hr 1 day. I bet they learn their lesson after giving 717s Bubbas a dream come true.

The company is contractually obligated to make 1 day trips. A 4 leg one day trip will never go away. Just as a 16+ hour trip from ATL-ICN will never go away.

They are testing for 2026 Q1. There are thousands of banked PB days that pilots are carrying over for 2025 rates before cashing in. With hundreds of banked PB days in a single 350B category, removing a high time trip from circulation reduces the amount of PB cycle. It becomes a math problem and a logistics problem if you have to find a new trip for every 5 PB days. If they can block redemption in March 2026 the value drops from 15+ to a vacation day

The good news for cycling PB days is that the new technique of preposting rest a month in advance turns RES coverage Black, thereby eliminating the possibility of trips getting snagged from OT for SS.

With coordination and unity, a BES could turn entire lines into silver slips. If the WB BES figure it out as a unified group the cost of SS would likely reach the point you are talking about and reverse the trend.

All this analysis aside, it's entirely possible that CS middle management is incompetent and costing the company millions.

Can someone explain to me how this stops PB Days. When I cashed in PB Days I would drop a trip a trip already on my line - how would a SS in open time affect this? If I was going to do it multiple times someone would pick it up and then Swap with friends. Its early and the coffee hasn't hit yet - so what I am I missing?

Scoop

They see the high day 1 value trip you are PB days washing and after you drop it with a PB they grab and make it a SS before your friend picks it up.

Ex
25:25 4 day (LAX350 P235)
13:10 block day 1.

If I want to PB wash 4 days, it pays me out 52:40 and they still have to pay a guy to fly it.

I PB day it once 13:10
SS 25:25x1.5 38:08 and they don't need to find a guy to fly it.
So 51:18 paid and its covered or 52:40 and still uncovered.

Yes the 3 unused PBs are worth at least 13:45 if they become SUPP days but that's future schedulers problem not current schedules problem.

OK - Wow. So they label it a SS and then whatever Pilot picks it up has to fly it to get the 200%. They must have to have this preprogrammed since it all runs automatically every PCS run.

Scoop

Not sure how exactly they are doing it in DBMS, but it has been noted in multiple categories. I hit it when I was trying to help a buddy PB wash a 7ER rotation that was 11-something block day 1, but we got 1 round of he drops, I grab, swap with friend back and then he drops doesn't get to me (specific trip WS) nor did anyone else get it then we saw it soaking for a SS. Now it seems they don't get to the friends schedule to wash.

I had a line at the bottom of LCW with appropriate days off, so I was able to pick the 25:37 4 day without a drop.

I've heard they automated it and have some kind of algorithm that takes into account how many PB days the pilot has when it's determining whether to designate the trip as a silver slip mid PCS run.

But they can't automate pilot pay properly or sick calls.

If true, all they are doing is teaching the group to not wait and take advantage of the "good" PB washing trips year round. That is incentivising the coordination effort you speak of. They are clueless IMHO

Effort and intent... yah it'll take years more to fix payroll and sick :rolleyes:

I have washed 19PB days on the same trip for November, with no SS designation. I am starting to think it's only on WB fleets. For the record, I am NBA.

What's the day 1 value of the PB washing NB trip? I'm sure there's some cutoff where below this it's cheaper to let PB washing go, than to yank it and SS.

The ER trip (so not NB or WB) that I ran into was around 11 hours day 1 credit on a 4 day worth 24-25 hours.

The trip I am washing is worth 8 including the soft pay. For those of you washing your PB days, ensure the trip you are washing includes the Soft time. The soft time has to be added manually from CS. I usually wait 3 or 4 runs before calling them to add the soft time.

Are any of the days in the trip footprint black? It takes 100% blue days to hit OT and be snagged by CS. If your intent is to cycle multiple PB days using a trip that touches a black day prevents it from hitting open time.

Another approach being discussed is "borrowing" a senior trip and intentionally cycle to make it a silver slip.

Correct on all counts. If interested reach out to ATL Rep TR. He can give you the details. Slimy on the company's part, but technically ("we didn't think that they would do that") legal.

Excellent.

This was my thought. If they are making SS we could do that with anything. We just need to figure out what triggers the algorithm.

And then they wonder why the pilot group gets more salty by the day.

I mean, in the big scheme of things, it's budget dust. And fully legal on our part.

Its a day trip in the middle of the week. The day is really blue. This trip was never borrowed; I picked it up as a WS and used a friend to wash it. I wouldn't be against them making it silver, but the silver slip rules need to be addressed first. The same M7 guys/gals shouldn't get all the SS as well.

That's fantastic. Thanks for the data point. The SS may be something only targeted at WB PB days for now.

Do we have a 23M7 log other than iCrew?

Yes as far as I know the company has only targeted WB categories since that’s where the true mega-bucks are with banked PB days. Having said that, I would not at all be surprised if they turned it on for NB pilots as well with no notice.

No.

I don't pay much attention to the NB fleets, but yes for WB it seems so.

Is ATL getting hit with SS? There is a rumor we have an ATL A350 management pilot who is helping CS kill PB days. ATL is being left alone so he doesn't have to face the music with co-workers.

ATL 350 A and B had some. Didn’t check other WB fleets.

Had SS or had management pilots flying the category?

Has silver slips due to PB day washing.

I didn’t want to start a new thread. and I’ve been off Facebook for a while and just lurking on APC occasionally for all my 787 news. But…….

Wtf is going on up in New York with the council election? Opened up my email this morning and there are endorsement letters and campaign letters etc. It reads sort of like a soap opera (typical ALPA). Can reps endorse candidates? I didn’t know that was allowed. Seems weird, but I’m not looped in so who knows.

It's generally considered taboo for people outside of your council to provide endorsements, especially elected reps. Within the council, I don't think there is anything wrong with endorsing someone.

LEC elections these days are ridiculously bland. Back in the day, they had websites, mailings, videotapes sent to your home, campaign managers, petting zoos in the terminals for the kids....the works.

These days, you're lucky if you get one pilot running for one position.

Hey, we had plenty of drama in C44 in the last election!

Do we have a document on the ipad that shows what hotel we should be at? I have a “long” layover and am scheduled for a short hotel. I can’t find a list of which stations don’t follow the 12 hr rule.

Layover Guide?