UPS has a TA

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06-15-2022 | 08:53 AM

#11

Gunfighter

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 172skychicken

I'm not sure what the hand-wringing over this is about. If we got a TA with raises as small as theirs over a similar span this place would melt down.

Pay rates are only one variable out of several that determine value. What do the other areas look like?

06-15-2022 | 08:59 AM

#12

Gone Flying

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From: UNA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunfighter

Pay rates are only one variable out of several that determine value. What do the other areas look like?

From what I have found, literally no changes except pay rates and fixed dollar increase to their pension (raises pension payment from $4,400/year per year of service to $4,650)

side note; if we ever do decide to go back down the rabbit hole of a pension, I think we should model it after UPS

-fixed dollar amount per year in retirement based on YOS not FAE ( there is an FAE calculation but from my understanding almost no one hits that over the fixed dollar amount)

-12% DC

06-15-2022 | 09:04 AM

#13

sailingfun

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunfighter

Technically we did go first, but ended up last. SF will be along shortly to promote small incremental gains and he won't be wrong. We should have had a modest increase in 2020 and used the current round as basis for our 2023 PWA. Now we are negotiating two cycles worth of contracts.

Edit: SF replied before I finished typing.

i never lobbied for small gains. I wanted a contract in the billion dollar a year range with solid gains. That ship has sailed and it now looks like UPS and UAL have torpedoed it.

06-15-2022 | 09:07 AM

#14

Gone Flying

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From: UNA

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

This is almost comical. UPS has endorsed the concept of short modest on time agreements to keep raises coming. We have totally rejected that concept yet guys post the UPS agreement as something good. It’s just over 150 million a year. We demanded 3 billion a year!!

based on how our management has acted towards us and their blatant anti union rhetoric, I’m not convinced we could have gotten much at all from appeasement

plus we have several sections of our contract that desperately needed fixing thanks to what I assume came from a combination of BK and neglect from previous contract negotiations. I hope everyone here would have voted no to a 4/3/3 raise with no other improvements in 2019 only based on the information we had at the time.

06-15-2022 | 09:16 AM

#15

JustNarced

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From: :)

I see everyone's point. I thought UPS was pay banded, so A220 and up at DL would be paying $400 an hour.

06-15-2022 | 09:25 AM

#16

Gone Flying

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From: UNA

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustNarced

I see everyone's point. I thought UPS was pay banded, so A220 and up at DL would be paying $400 an hour.

mid we got this pay for ALL our aircraft that would be a huge win, I’ll agree with that.

06-15-2022 | 09:37 AM

#17

JustNarced

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gone Flying

mid we got this pay for ALL our aircraft that would be a huge win, I’ll agree with that.

I thought so. I actually think the NB rates need to come up closer to WB. Why parade around a rate where a little over 100 pilots in ATL can hold at a time, our largest base. It almost makes our 330A and 350A rates irrelevant.

ATL 350A 116
ATL 330A 104
ATL 765A 68

06-15-2022 | 09:43 AM

#18

Gunfighter

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

i never lobbied for small gains. I wanted a contract in the billion dollar a year range with solid gains. That ship has sailed and it now looks like UPS and UAL have torpedoed it.

My mistake, thanks for the correction.

06-15-2022 | 09:55 AM

#19

Gunfighter

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JustNarced

I see everyone's point. I thought UPS was pay banded, so A220 and up at DL would be paying $400 an hour.

Comparing 220 to UPS is like comparing RJ rates to a DL 767. The smallest plane at UPS is a 757 and makes up only 1/3 of the fleet. The other 2/3 are all WB. The most accurate DL : UPS comparison would be A330 to UPS.
FedEx has bands for NB (757 and 737) and WB, so the FedEx NB rate could be compared to DL 737/320/757. Nothing flown by the large cargo carriers is comparable to the A220 based on the industry norms of size and range.

06-15-2022 | 10:03 AM

#20

All 5 Stages

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gone Flying

that’s what I was thinking too. Looks like since 2019 they have gotten

2020-4%
2021-3%
2022-3%

and if this passes it will be 3%/year for 2023-2025.

If DL offered us a 10.3% raise tomorrow with 3%/ year after (and no other contract improvements), all we would hear here is how much of a POS that hypothetical TA is.

Wow. That's a pay cut in real dollars -- not even close to keeping up with inflation or even the CPI.

A5S