since you’re speaking the truth, how about answering my question from a few pages ago:

is everyone who opposes the MB concept “selfish?”

I am not one in the cross hairs of the Min Balance. I’m younger than those guys. But it’s a good idea and I support it 100%. Because many since 9/11 that are in the cross hairs or like myself closer to it than the young guys, gave up a lot. Then gave up more. Then worked under crappy contracts under a stalled seniority list for almost a decade. It’s what the association is all about. When I was furloughed I was offered free Cobra. I never took it, but still to this day thank my elders for providing it. No one except the DZ’ers know what it’s like to lose, overnight 50% of their compensation and at or more of their pension. Yet some of you snot nosed flyboys (TopGun reference-tounge in cheek, don’t get yer panties in a wad Jr.) think it’s all about you. It sure is, but after we make wrongs rights. And that’s why I’m for the Min Balance. I don’t know what it pertains, but I’m all for seed money being added for what we all gave up, even if it was 17 years or more ago. It’ll benefit all, but some more than others. And I’m ok with that.

And we may get squat. But I’m happy to still see on the table. Shoot for the moon.

just to be clear, if we oppose the MB concept, we are “snot-nosed flyboys,” clearly worthy of you looking down upon?


or is that only some of those who oppose it?

Some…. Absolutely. Go back and read some of the posts. It’s obvious. And those that can’t see what the MBCBP provides are unread. I agree it should be NOT mandatory, but it’s a great plan for many. The smart ones. We may still not get it approved through the government. But even without seed money it’ll be a big bonus. And for those of you who don’t think a secondary tax shelter is a great plan and idea are…. Here it comes…. Ignorant.

bold strategy to talk about ignorance when you’re conflating the MBCBP and the MB concept

Agree.

This is a math problem. For the very vast majority of us the MBCBP is a good idea.

Its all tied in together, since the company can’t just drop big bucks into your 401k. It has to be put into a new vehicle that isn’t approved for us yet. There are limits to your and company’s deposits into 401k’s yearly. So where do you think this min balance retirement account money is going to go? The Unicorn Bank on the Yellow Brink Road in Oz managed by Glenda, the good witch of the west? Keep dreaming.

they aren’t tied together. The establishment of an MBCBP does not assume nor require the minimum balance concept to be part of it.

so I ask again, is anyone opposed to the MB concept “selfish” “snot nosed flyboys” worthy of your derision?

Another way to explain this is:
Day one Min Balance in a MBCBP, $300,000
Day two, someone retires with $300,000 having contributed nothing - company pays all
15th of the month, after 401K is full, pilots' excess is routed into the MBCBP
Pilot retires the second year after the contract - they get $300,000 but $290,000 was funded by the company and $10,000 funded by the pilot's excess which is routed into the MBCBP
Pilot retires seven years from now. They get the $300,000 but it has been completely funded by their own excess, and so on, company contributes $0.

Easy to explain with a chart, but basically pilots retiring soonest gain the greatest benefit since they had no time to contribute their excess. In other words, they've been enjoying eating their cake and will get a cake too. Those who retire later get to bake their own cake and take it with them.

I would prefer not to ascribe motives to what the MEC is trying to do here. Obviously, the Min Balance only benefits those soon to retire. Any idea that junior pilots are "selfish" for not wanting to divert half a billion $ or so misses the mark. Any notion that senior pilots are "greedy" for wanting the security of more $ for an uncertain retirement also misses the mark. Assume everyone has unlimited greed. Also assume everyone is the head of a household with a family to support and nobody knows what this industry or the equities market (in whatever you invest in) is going to do.

It is beyond silly that some senior pilots are on here stating they negotiated DC for junior pilots, ha! They negotiated DC because it benefitted all pilots equally and at that time they were mid-seniority and mid-career, when EQUAL across the board seemed like a good idea.

My forecast is that After Thanksgiving when the decision makers are at the table the Negotiators will be given a bag of cash & the problem of how to allocate that cash across pay rates and min balance. They will take that problem to the MEC and get direction. The MEC will demand both. To get a deal done the thing will have to be allocated.

The company has no specific objection to a min balance, in fact, they likely don't care. They'll pull it from pay and let the MEC Reps fight it out.

Pay rates are better for the industry and for future pattern bargaining, JMHO.