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-   -   Scope Language out (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/141216-scope-language-out.html)

Vsop 01-18-2023 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by brakechatter (Post 3573973)
You need to read the agreement again. The Company can throw a narrow body on RDU-CDG, but it won't count towards the hours that they have to put on a wide body. Plus there is additional protections in Section 3 should they decide to send narrowbodies over the ocean on a regular basis.

I’m not worried of Delta throwing a NB I’m worried about our partner swapping to NBs and driving down our required WB via the ratio. The only protection on this is the 80% floor. I wonder if 20% of block hours is possible to swap to NB? I’m not sure if it is, but it doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy feeling that we failed to account for this possibility.

notEnuf 01-18-2023 07:42 AM


Originally Posted by Vsop (Post 3573990)
I’m not worried of Delta throwing a NB I’m worried about our partner swapping to NBs and driving down our required WB via the ratio. The only protection on this is the 80% floor. I wonder if 20% of block hours is possible to swap to NB? I’m not sure if it is, but it doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy feeling that we failed to account for this possibility.

This is what I was thinking. You know there will be another flag of convenience scam carrier like Norwegian at some point. Our "partners" (read Delta management) will want to compete head to head and voilà.

myrkridia 01-18-2023 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by Gspeed (Post 3573896)
I don’t necessarily disagree, but how close are we talking? More or less than 4 years?

I haven't a clue. I did my best reading through the Global Scope TA and while a lot of it sounds good the lack of NB protection is a concern to me, especially given the emphasis on protecting against supersonic aircraft. I'd put the former as a a higher threat than the latter. Could be 5 years, could be 20. Maybe it's knocking on our door before the amendable date and we're all wondering why they didn't think of that.

Gspeed 01-18-2023 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by myrkridia (Post 3574058)
Maybe it's knocking on our door before the amendable date and we're all wondering why they didn't think of that.

This is why I posed the rhetorical. I think it's potentially a threat but I personally don't foresee it being one within the next 5ish years.

myrkridia 01-18-2023 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by Gspeed (Post 3574110)
This is why I posed the rhetorical. I think it's potentially a threat but I personally don't foresee it being one within the next 5ish years.

Yes. I'm not even necessarily saying this is a deal breaker, there's plenty of good stuff in this GSTA. I'm just trying to understand why supersonic was perceived as a more imminent threat than NB toward WB flying.

Trip7 01-18-2023 01:27 PM

Global Scope TA sent to MEMRAT unanimously. Impressive

DELTAFO 01-19-2023 06:08 AM

My worry isn't NB flying across the Atlantic by a partner, it's NB flying to South America by LATAM. They already have 16 A320neo. Those planes can do a lot of north South America to ATL and MIA. And they won't be limited by this TA.

GeneralLee 01-19-2023 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by DELTAFO (Post 3574694)
My worry isn't NB flying across the Atlantic by a partner, it's NB flying to South America by LATAM. They already have 16 A320neo. Those planes can do a lot of north South America to ATL and MIA. And they won't be limited by this TA.

There will be a forthcoming Scope notepad regarding NB flying that will put everyone's mind to ease over this.

PilotBases 01-19-2023 06:28 AM


Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 3574360)
Global Scope TA sent to MEMRAT unanimously. Impressive

I didn’t see that coming. Honestly I thought it might be more contentious than the AIP/TA.

As an aside, I understand they can’t send everything out at once, but for future ref a quick FAQ would go a long way. Stuff like this NB block hours etc, to “head it off at the pass” before we run away.

GeneralLee 01-19-2023 06:55 AM


Originally Posted by DELTAFO (Post 3574694)
My worry isn't NB flying across the Atlantic by a partner, it's NB flying to South America by LATAM. They already have 16 A320neo. Those planes can do a lot of north South America to ATL and MIA. And they won't be limited by this TA.

Right now Latam uses a mix of WB and NB to and from SA. We do a lot of NB flying North and South as well on the 75. Probably will do it on the 321N at some point soon. We do a lot of SA on the 350/ER..flying that could easily be on an NB, but we are using more WBs. I guess I just don't quite get your point? Just imagine if we focused this scope on NBs primarily.. we would have everyone on here saying "look..Delta plans to fly NBs while our partners fly WBs."

There will be more information coming out. I think we just need to breathe a bit. Scope is obviously a complex issue that everyone that requires a lot of education to clear it up. ELI5 etc.


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