23.M.7 Updated
06-26-2023 | 04:36 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
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From: UNA
we could have loosened batch sizes for a month or 2 while they reprogrammed it but instead we now have permanently given up something for nothing
06-26-2023 | 04:37 PM
#42
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 336
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In fact now we agree with their interpretation that they can use 23m7 at will within 8 hours (up from their now standard practice of 3-4 hours). Massive DALPA fail.
We gave up batch sizes in exchange for giving up our 23m7 interpretation…that is a lose-lose for the pilot group.
06-26-2023 | 04:37 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
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There are probably dozens of things that greatly benefit the pilot group and the company. I agree the current system is dumb. I'm just hopeful this stops the VRU calls at all hours of the day for trips that aren't even in OT anymore and better honors seniority
06-26-2023 | 04:39 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
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But the company didn’t give it up.
In fact now we agree with their interpretation that they can use it at will within 8 hours (up from their now standard practice of 3-4 hours). Massive DALPA fail.
We gave up batch sizes in exchange for giving up our 23m7 interpretation…that is a lose-lose for the pilot group.
In fact now we agree with their interpretation that they can use it at will within 8 hours (up from their now standard practice of 3-4 hours). Massive DALPA fail.
We gave up batch sizes in exchange for giving up our 23m7 interpretation…that is a lose-lose for the pilot group.
And we can interpret it however we like but we have to convince an arbitrator....how did that work out for us re: RJs and flow? We got literally nothing..
06-26-2023 | 04:46 PM
#45
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Joined: Aug 2018
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To me that makes it a rotten deal for the pilot group.
If one cannot achieve more through a deal vs a defeat/capitulation, the deal is not worth taking.
We should have extracted something for the noted efficiency gain by the company and we did not. Terrible use of leverage by ALPA.
06-26-2023 | 05:08 PM
#46
Roll’n Thunder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,219
Likes: 667
From: Pilot
The leverage we had was that the company was forced to pay triple for every 23.M.7 usage (2X to IA pilot and 1X to skipped pilot). Yes they were abusing it, but at least it had a cost to them, so even if we lost the 23.M.7 grievance there were still some financial checks in place. Now with unlimited batch sizes I see IA's going away nearly entirely. Why blast the entire IA roster when you can just blast the entire GS roster and save 1X pay every time?
The X factor is if pilots start doing auto accept en masse. That would bog things down again and drive scheduling back to IA's within a few hours to report.
The X factor is if pilots start doing auto accept en masse. That would bog things down again and drive scheduling back to IA's within a few hours to report.
06-26-2023 | 05:14 PM
#47
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Joined: Jul 2013
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The leverage we had was that the company was forced to pay triple for every 23.M.7 usage (2X to IA pilot and 1X to skipped pilot). Yes they were abusing it, but at least it had a cost to them, so even if we lost the 23.M.7 grievance there were still some financial checks in place. Now with unlimited batch sizes I see IA's going away nearly entirely. Why blast the entire IA roster when you can just blast the entire GS roster and save 1X pay every time?
The X factor is if pilots start doing auto accept en masse. That would bog things down again and drive scheduling back to IA's within a few hours to report.
The X factor is if pilots start doing auto accept en masse. That would bog things down again and drive scheduling back to IA's within a few hours to report.
But that's beside the point. I don't want them to pay triple for a trip. I'm never calling in for an IA. So instead of getting 2X pay on a GS in seniority order, I MAY get 1X pay but likely won't because lots of guys senior to me are sitting in batch size/M7 slips.
06-26-2023 | 05:31 PM
#48
Has a furrowed brow
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,448
Likes: 259
This is also where I’m at. No way we were going to win a grievance when the company technically wasn’t violating the contract since 23.M.7 was essentially Ron Swanson’s “permit” for the company
06-26-2023 | 05:47 PM
#49
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,079
Likes: 224
I agree something needed to give. But unlimited batch size? That’s what we are going for?
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