International Diversions
12-23-2023, 06:19 PM
#81
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Iceberg
Sorry for assuming that was the purpose of your post.
I think the overall direction the thread took was too much Monday morning quarterbacking with a lack of information. People are quick to point out how unknowledgeable the news can be, yet use it to point out perceived failures of others. Sorry for unfairly pinning that on you.
I think the overall direction the thread took was too much Monday morning quarterbacking with a lack of information. People are quick to point out how unknowledgeable the news can be, yet use it to point out perceived failures of others. Sorry for unfairly pinning that on you.
Iceberg, thank you for having the fortitude to apologize. It's the sign of class act. Too many people in the social media, political, managerial, etc. arenas double down instead of looking beyond their own egos. It's refreshing to see your integrity.
12-24-2023, 03:24 AM
#82
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 81
After his experience every time dispatch tried to change my alternate I sent back asking if customs was available and open. If not I refused it. I am sure Delta will take a look at what exactly happened and how they had only minutes of hold time. Perhaps it will be a lesson to management to bump the fuel loads.[/QUOTE]
All to often dispatch only considers what is legal, not necessarly practial. How many times do you see an alternate on the other side of a solid line of thunderstorms?
All to often dispatch only considers what is legal, not necessarly practial. How many times do you see an alternate on the other side of a solid line of thunderstorms?
12-24-2023, 03:34 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by NWARet
After his experience every time dispatch tried to change my alternate I sent back asking if customs was available and open. If not I refused it. I am sure Delta will take a look at what exactly happened and how they had only minutes of hold time. Perhaps it will be a lesson to management to bump the fuel loads.
I agree, the other thing they were doing all the time was using EWR as a alternate to JFK and using something like 12 minutes of flight time. The reality is they are going to run you down to DC before they let you turn back North for EWR on a busy afternoon. Sets you up to using the E word. I even once saw a day where the EWR flights were diverting to JFK and the JFK flights to EWR! One of our flights they ran way south and with the thunderstorms popping all over the NYC area just continued to ATL. He was unable to contact dispatch in the mess. He called them from the ground in ATL.
12-24-2023, 04:48 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Originally Posted by sailingfun
All to often dispatch only considers what is legal, not necessarly practial. How many times do you see an alternate on the other side of a solid line of thunderstorms?
I agree, the other thing they were doing all the time was using EWR as a alternate to JFK and using something like 12 minutes of flight time. The reality is they are going to run you down to DC before they let you turn back North for EWR on a busy afternoon. Sets you up to using the E word. I even once saw a day where the EWR flights were diverting to JFK and the JFK flights to EWR! One of our flights they ran way south and with the thunderstorms popping all over the NYC area just continued to ATL. He was unable to contact dispatch in the mess. He called them from the ground in ATL.
I agree, the other thing they were doing all the time was using EWR as a alternate to JFK and using something like 12 minutes of flight time. The reality is they are going to run you down to DC before they let you turn back North for EWR on a busy afternoon. Sets you up to using the E word. I even once saw a day where the EWR flights were diverting to JFK and the JFK flights to EWR! One of our flights they ran way south and with the thunderstorms popping all over the NYC area just continued to ATL. He was unable to contact dispatch in the mess. He called them from the ground in ATL.
The smokers were not happy.
12-24-2023, 05:31 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Khantahr
According to the green slip that went out, they did drive two pilots over to get the 330.
Maybe they figured sending a 321 with a few flight attendants was easier than driving 10 flight attendants over with the pilots. Maybe they didn't know how long it would take for the drive, since they either have to go over the mountains in the winter, or all the way down to the gorge and back up.
Maybe they figured sending a 321 with a few flight attendants was easier than driving 10 flight attendants over with the pilots. Maybe they didn't know how long it would take for the drive, since they either have to go over the mountains in the winter, or all the way down to the gorge and back up.
12-24-2023, 07:52 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,033
Originally Posted by NWARet
After his experience every time dispatch tried to change my alternate I sent back asking if customs was available and open. If not I refused it. I am sure Delta will take a look at what exactly happened and how they had only minutes of hold time. Perhaps it will be a lesson to management to bump the fuel loads. All to often dispatch only considers what is legal, not necessarly practial. How many times do you see an alternate on the other side of a solid line of thunderstorms?
12-24-2023, 09:59 AM
#87
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,985
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Some times legal isn't even a consideration. I recall a flight that was going to land at in BOS after an emergency and dispatch told them to continue to JFK for some inappropriate reason like MX or parts availabilty. The crew got dinged for overflying the nearest suitable.
Edit: But more along the lines of why with a fire indication, even if you thought it was erroneous, did you pass good fields. So an example, but not necessarily one pertaining perfectly to this case.
12-24-2023, 10:19 AM
#88
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by MrMustache
You should probably consider stopping posting. This is a pretty stupid thread.
I respectfully disagree. I think the crew did a great job, but the thread is still food for thought and
a great learning opportunity for those willing to discuss the various aspects of International diviesrions with an open mind.
Scoop
12-24-2023, 04:35 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,419
Originally Posted by beernutt
If you have time in any control seat of a type it counts towards high mins, ie if you ever were an FO on the 330 and had more than 100 hours doing it then you will not be on high mins if you go to the left seat. That's the way it has been interpreted by DAL dispatchers and (some) instructors I've asked. I'm not saying it's the correct interpretation but it allowed me (per dispatch) to do a no-kidding cat III into LAX one night on my second landing off OE. The dispatcher, when asked via Atlanta radio on the way there told me that since I had time as an FO on the same type (m88 vs 717, 20+ years ago) I was good to go.
I'm curious as to the real legality of this. Either way we (auto) landed fine and the statute of limitations has expired.
This is moot in the case of DAL21 anyway, the A was never a B on the plane.
I'm curious as to the real legality of this. Either way we (auto) landed fine and the statute of limitations has expired.
This is moot in the case of DAL21 anyway, the A was never a B on the plane.
It looks like with a few caveats you can fly a cat 1 or 2 approach to published minimums as long as you have 300 jet hours and 75 hours in type, regardless of if that time was FO or CA time.
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