m3113n1a1

Agreed it's like when a ground controller says "taxi to runway 27R via Lima, Juliet, Mike. Give way to the 737 coming out of ramp 3". ...do we want them to just tell us to hold short of ramp 3 until it's clear? No.

crewdawg

Ha, I was thinking the same thing. Good to know that I'm not totally chowing on the crazy pills. Anyway, all this talk reminded me that I forgot an intergral part of my bid...avoid if landing in ATL lol.

TED74

But where do you get your reroute money?

crewdawg

I actually laughed out loud on that one. Thanks for that! A few weeks ago, I passed a good buddy in DTW and asked where he was headed. He said CLT then a 2.5 hr sit in ATL. As I was walking away I said enjoy your reroute. Later that day he sends me a screen shot of his reroute with a "thanks a lot A hole!" 🤣

notEnuf

slow morning so I had to look it up...

do not becon and brakes off until cleared to push is the short version

that said, ATL seems to have a lot of stuck chocks requiring brake release, must be the drainage slope on the ramp

crewdawg

Lots of stuck chocks in DTW as well.

Herkflyr

I've actually thought about this, and there is a pretty significant difference--two significant differences in fact.

1. He is giving you more specific details. "Follow the 737 exiting ramp 3." He is NOT saying "follow the 737"...and leaving it at that, for you to decipher. (There was that time the ORD controller told me to "follow the United Airbus"; I replied, "which of the three that are about to pass me should I follow?").

2. Biggest difference is that you the pilots are looking forward and can SEE the traffic the controller is tellling you to follow, and any other traffic for that matter. That is a whole lot different than trying to use the tug driver as your eyes, who did not hear one word of the clearance that the ramp controller gave you.

GogglesPisano

When a ground controller issues these instructions you can see where you're going. In the ramp circus it's a game of telephone. It's safer just to say, "Cleared to push." Let the ramp controller do his job and control the ramp.

Forcing pilots to control the ramp is a US thing.

m3113n1a1

Now that you mention it, I agree with you. It is annoying and a threat having to relay the vague instructions to the tug driver. And also, you're right.. I've never experienced complicated push instructions in foreign countries.

FangsF15

We are doing no such thing. The Ramp controller literally controls the ramp. You are overstating the problem here.

1. I think it is effectively the same thing. JMO. I have gotten “follow the XXX” taxi instructions in multiple places, including ATL. Never had an issue. I’m not saying it’s a great technique, but if you are not clear on the clearance, confirm it (just like any clearance with which you are not fully confident), which you did. 99.9999+% of the time, it works and is fine.

2. But you aren’t responsible. The vol 1 says:
If we are going to go down the road of “it would be safer if we…”, we would never get off the ground. We simply have to accept some risks to be in this business. Don’t read that as I don’t care about safety, or doing things smarter. At all. I’m all for doing things smarter and being the last screen for errors. But we can’t be so beholden to it that we lose the forest for the trees. IMO, it’s not an issue, but if it becomes one for you on occasion, clarify.


Changing gears, and FWIW, the vol 1 also has a red-boarded warning (sorry about the all caps, I’m not retyping this). I think everyone knows this, but it’s a good reminder of what the book actually says: