Extended Duty Pay
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 232
FAR 117 Guide from ALPA
Q-18. Can my scheduled report time be adjusted to change my FDP? A-18. FDP limits are determined by scheduled reporting time and not by actual reporting time (the scheduled reporting time for an FDP is created once that FDP has been assigned to a flightcrew member). In order to change the reporting time, the flightcrew member would have to be shifted to long- or short-call reserve.
#22
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,552
But your FDP has started... It's not a RAP at all.
FAR 117 Guide from ALPA
Q-18. Can my scheduled report time be adjusted to change my FDP? A-18. FDP limits are determined by scheduled reporting time and not by actual reporting time (the scheduled reporting time for an FDP is created once that FDP has been assigned to a flightcrew member). In order to change the reporting time, the flightcrew member would have to be shifted to long- or short-call reserve.
FAR 117 Guide from ALPA
Q-18. Can my scheduled report time be adjusted to change my FDP? A-18. FDP limits are determined by scheduled reporting time and not by actual reporting time (the scheduled reporting time for an FDP is created once that FDP has been assigned to a flightcrew member). In order to change the reporting time, the flightcrew member would have to be shifted to long- or short-call reserve.
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 232
There is an engage podcast released recently that covers this exact scenario. Depending on when you are notified and where you are when notified determines many things. But you can most definitely start a RAP and have an FDP that starts much later on a delayed flight.
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 737
But your FDP has started... It's not a RAP at all.
FAR 117 Guide from ALPA
Q-18. Can my scheduled report time be adjusted to change my FDP? A-18. FDP limits are determined by scheduled reporting time and not by actual reporting time (the scheduled reporting time for an FDP is created once that FDP has been assigned to a flightcrew member). In order to change the reporting time, the flightcrew member would have to be shifted to long- or short-call reserve.
FAR 117 Guide from ALPA
Q-18. Can my scheduled report time be adjusted to change my FDP? A-18. FDP limits are determined by scheduled reporting time and not by actual reporting time (the scheduled reporting time for an FDP is created once that FDP has been assigned to a flightcrew member). In order to change the reporting time, the flightcrew member would have to be shifted to long- or short-call reserve.
FAR 117 QRG Page 15 explains change to report time fairly well.
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,504
But your FDP has started... It's not a RAP at all.
FAR 117 Guide from ALPA
Q-18. Can my scheduled report time be adjusted to change my FDP? A-18. FDP limits are determined by scheduled reporting time and not by actual reporting time (the scheduled reporting time for an FDP is created once that FDP has been assigned to a flightcrew member). In order to change the reporting time, the flightcrew member would have to be shifted to long- or short-call reserve.
FAR 117 Guide from ALPA
Q-18. Can my scheduled report time be adjusted to change my FDP? A-18. FDP limits are determined by scheduled reporting time and not by actual reporting time (the scheduled reporting time for an FDP is created once that FDP has been assigned to a flightcrew member). In order to change the reporting time, the flightcrew member would have to be shifted to long- or short-call reserve.
From page 17 of the quick reference 117 guide found here
https://dal.alpa.org/Portals/1/Docum...de-far-117.pdf
Fewer Than 10 Hours to Report If your report time is delayed, and you receive fewer than 10 hours’ notice, the rescheduled FDP will be treated similar to a “short call reserve,” with a RAP start time at the original report time of the FDP (noted on the rotation as “Pay/Actual Report”). The new FDP will be based on the rescheduled report time (noted as “airport report time”), but the RAP is considered to have begun at the original report time. Calculating your new FDP limit will require some mental math on your part. In essence, your original “Actual Report Time” represents the beginning of a pseudo-RAP and the “Airport Report Time” represents the report time for the rescheduled FDP. To figure out your new FDP limit (the lesser value is most restrictive): Convert your “Airport Report Time” to your last acclimated city (generally shown on your rotation: Your FDP must end no later than the new report time (“Airport Report Time”) plus the FDP limit (from table B or C) And determine: • Unaugmented: The original report time (i.e., “Actual Report Time” converted to your last acclimated city) Table B value + four hours (not to exceed 16 hours) • Augmented: The original report time (i.e., “Actual Report Time converted to your last acclimated city) Table C value + four hours. Remember, the lesser value is most restrictive! Exception: If the FDP intrudes into your WOCL (0200-0559 pilot acclimated time), the Company must provide 12 hours’ notice, not 10, to use “long call” rules
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 232
but, it hasn't.
From page 17 of the quick reference 117 guide found here
https://dal.alpa.org/Portals/1/Docum...de-far-117.pdf
From page 17 of the quick reference 117 guide found here
https://dal.alpa.org/Portals/1/Docum...de-far-117.pdf
Still seems bogus. Pseudo-RAP, for real? If they want me on the hook for Table B + 4 hours, I better know about it the night before to rest accordingly.
#27
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,552
Nothing is preventing you from calling in fatigued at any point during a delayed-report scenario. In my case I woke up at 0330, saw the delay on my phone, and basically went right back to sleep for 4 more hours. So in that case I could go pretty much all day based on a solid night’s sleep. Had I been unable to go back to sleep it would have been a different story.
#28
There is an engage podcast released recently that covers this exact scenario. Depending on when you are notified and where you are when notified determines many things. But you can most definitely start a RAP and have an FDP that starts much later on a delayed flight.
#29
I went back an relistened to this episode #33, and noticed something which has not been discussed here. If you are in this situation, where you have a delayed report with a pseudo-RAP, once you do the math off Table B or C, you cannot extend the FDP. Listen from about 4:30-5:30.
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 737
As others pointed out, you are always responsible for determining your individual level of fatigue. Delta's position is you should be reporting for duty fit for the maximum possible FDP limit for the day. A critical difference however, is 117.3 defined fitness for duty as "physiologically and mentally prepared and capable of performing assigned duties at the highest degree of safety." Nobody will give you a hard time for not being fit for duty for a full pseudo-RAP following delayed report times. I believe the theory behind it is being able to get back to sleep following the notification (and acknowledgement) but understanding that the interrupted rest wont be the same as if it was outside of 10 hours. Obviously not everyone is able to go back to sleep in these circumstances.
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