How a union becomes a racket
02-17-2024, 09:31 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: ATL 7ER A
Posts: 307
How a union becomes a racket
How A Union Becomes A Racket
Fellow Delta pilots,
I have read the MEC’s proposed changes to the Policy Manual, and I oppose them. I believe that this resembles a money grab for union insiders, and I believe that the actions of my own representatives in Atlanta violate two resolutions addressing this topic, both passed unanimously at a local council meeting on 17 January 2020. Here’s a link to the minutes for that meeting:
https://dal.alpa.org/Portals/1/Documents/lec/council44/meetings/meeting-minutes/2020/dal-044-meeting-minutes-20200117.pdf
I have some thoughts about the proposals:
FLIGHT PAY LOSS
An ALPA worker’s pay should be no more and no less than what they would receive as a line pilot. The proposal to raise FPL to 6:00 per day draws a line between those who do ALPA work and the pilots they serve.
I believe the fairest method to calculate full time FPL is to calculate a value based on the average pilot pay for the preceding twelve months. This look back should be applied every March, the same month that new reps are seated. The lookback ties ALPA pay to pilot pay, whether it’s for a month or for a single day of work, and doesn’t require revision for economic or financial fluctuations.
RESERVE
There should be zero “plus-up” for reserve. I was often on reserve when I was a lobbyist for ALPA on the Government Affairs Committee, and it was clear to me that I was exchanging a “possible” work obligation at Delta for a “definite” work obligation at ALPA. Anyone who doesn’t like that shouldn’t be doing ALPA work.
SPLIT FLEET PAY
No line pilot gets a guarantee of the highest split rate, why should an ALPA worker get that guarantee?
MONTHLY CAP
There are many ways to skin this cat without using ALPA to circumvent the rules by which a line pilot must otherwise abide.
REPRESENTATIVE COMPENSATION
The proposal is for each rep to get two “administrative days” per month for unspecified work. This idea is ripe for abuse. Hard no. Being a rep means working during otherwise free time, if you don’t like that, don’t run for election. This is another perk for insiders, and it ignores the fact that the basis of credibility for our reps is the premise that they FLY THE LINE, and can therefore speak with authority about the pay and work rules of Delta pilots.
No one outside of ALPA - no one in management, in government, in the press, or among our customers and investors – will take our reps seriously if they don’t fly the line.
ROTATION GUARANTEE
As written in the MEC communication, this proposal is logically flawed. First it says that it will cover anyone who drops a trip for ALPA but doesn’t do any work. Then presents a fantastic doomsday scenario where the big bad chief pilot “requires” a rep to drop a trip without pay.
That is absurd. Even pilots facing discipline get paid while they are dancing on the carpet, and even if the company won’t put CPAR or CADM on the rep’s line, FPL can be applied retroactively by the MEC Treasurer.
TRAVEL DAYS
I never had a problem with travel during fifteen years of ALPA work. The MEC needs to explain this issue in more detail, and how it is a problem.
ALPA WHILE SICK
This has to be the biggest scam I’ve ever seen, and I’m shocked that any ALPA rep would openly consider this level of self-dealing while presenting it as an improvement to the membership.
It’s called FLIGHT pay loss, not SICK pay loss. Anyone who is sick or otherwise unable to exercise the privileges of their medical certificate shouldn’t be on anything except sick leave or some form of disability. I had two shoulder surgeries while I was a rep in Atlanta, and I didn’t take a dime of FPL during the time I was on sick leave.
This scam would allow anyone doing ALPA work to delay the date on which they use up their sick leave and go on disability. Compared to a line pilot in similar circumstances, the ALPA worker would get a larger profit sharing check as a result of this proposal. Not just no, hell no.
HOW THIS AFFECTS THE LINE PILOTS
An ALPA worker’s pay should be no more and no less than what they would receive as a line pilot. The PMRC findings, if approved, will turn ALPA into a hiding place from the line, a sweet deal for populists who will say anything to get elected, who double down to stay in office or avoid getting recalled, and who only accept like-minded minions as volunteers.
This will result in higher levels of political infighting than we ever saw in the past, distracting our reps from their primary task of negotiating new contracts. The last thing these people will do is imperil their financial incentives by putting a risky decision up for membership ratification. We will end up looking like the Teamsters, represented by a bunch of smooth talking demagogues who never move a wheel.
The PMRC findings should be rejected. Whoever drafted the proposal for FPL on sick leave should resign.
Call your reps.
Kevin O’Mahoney
Fellow Delta pilots,
I have read the MEC’s proposed changes to the Policy Manual, and I oppose them. I believe that this resembles a money grab for union insiders, and I believe that the actions of my own representatives in Atlanta violate two resolutions addressing this topic, both passed unanimously at a local council meeting on 17 January 2020. Here’s a link to the minutes for that meeting:
https://dal.alpa.org/Portals/1/Documents/lec/council44/meetings/meeting-minutes/2020/dal-044-meeting-minutes-20200117.pdf
I have some thoughts about the proposals:
FLIGHT PAY LOSS
An ALPA worker’s pay should be no more and no less than what they would receive as a line pilot. The proposal to raise FPL to 6:00 per day draws a line between those who do ALPA work and the pilots they serve.
I believe the fairest method to calculate full time FPL is to calculate a value based on the average pilot pay for the preceding twelve months. This look back should be applied every March, the same month that new reps are seated. The lookback ties ALPA pay to pilot pay, whether it’s for a month or for a single day of work, and doesn’t require revision for economic or financial fluctuations.
RESERVE
There should be zero “plus-up” for reserve. I was often on reserve when I was a lobbyist for ALPA on the Government Affairs Committee, and it was clear to me that I was exchanging a “possible” work obligation at Delta for a “definite” work obligation at ALPA. Anyone who doesn’t like that shouldn’t be doing ALPA work.
SPLIT FLEET PAY
No line pilot gets a guarantee of the highest split rate, why should an ALPA worker get that guarantee?
MONTHLY CAP
There are many ways to skin this cat without using ALPA to circumvent the rules by which a line pilot must otherwise abide.
REPRESENTATIVE COMPENSATION
The proposal is for each rep to get two “administrative days” per month for unspecified work. This idea is ripe for abuse. Hard no. Being a rep means working during otherwise free time, if you don’t like that, don’t run for election. This is another perk for insiders, and it ignores the fact that the basis of credibility for our reps is the premise that they FLY THE LINE, and can therefore speak with authority about the pay and work rules of Delta pilots.
No one outside of ALPA - no one in management, in government, in the press, or among our customers and investors – will take our reps seriously if they don’t fly the line.
ROTATION GUARANTEE
As written in the MEC communication, this proposal is logically flawed. First it says that it will cover anyone who drops a trip for ALPA but doesn’t do any work. Then presents a fantastic doomsday scenario where the big bad chief pilot “requires” a rep to drop a trip without pay.
That is absurd. Even pilots facing discipline get paid while they are dancing on the carpet, and even if the company won’t put CPAR or CADM on the rep’s line, FPL can be applied retroactively by the MEC Treasurer.
TRAVEL DAYS
I never had a problem with travel during fifteen years of ALPA work. The MEC needs to explain this issue in more detail, and how it is a problem.
ALPA WHILE SICK
This has to be the biggest scam I’ve ever seen, and I’m shocked that any ALPA rep would openly consider this level of self-dealing while presenting it as an improvement to the membership.
It’s called FLIGHT pay loss, not SICK pay loss. Anyone who is sick or otherwise unable to exercise the privileges of their medical certificate shouldn’t be on anything except sick leave or some form of disability. I had two shoulder surgeries while I was a rep in Atlanta, and I didn’t take a dime of FPL during the time I was on sick leave.
This scam would allow anyone doing ALPA work to delay the date on which they use up their sick leave and go on disability. Compared to a line pilot in similar circumstances, the ALPA worker would get a larger profit sharing check as a result of this proposal. Not just no, hell no.
HOW THIS AFFECTS THE LINE PILOTS
An ALPA worker’s pay should be no more and no less than what they would receive as a line pilot. The PMRC findings, if approved, will turn ALPA into a hiding place from the line, a sweet deal for populists who will say anything to get elected, who double down to stay in office or avoid getting recalled, and who only accept like-minded minions as volunteers.
This will result in higher levels of political infighting than we ever saw in the past, distracting our reps from their primary task of negotiating new contracts. The last thing these people will do is imperil their financial incentives by putting a risky decision up for membership ratification. We will end up looking like the Teamsters, represented by a bunch of smooth talking demagogues who never move a wheel.
The PMRC findings should be rejected. Whoever drafted the proposal for FPL on sick leave should resign.
Call your reps.
Kevin O’Mahoney
02-17-2024, 11:09 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,909
Originally Posted by Starcheck102
An ALPA worker’s pay should be no more and no less than what they would receive as a line pilot.
02-17-2024, 11:24 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,204
From the cheap seats it’s worth pointing from this line pilot perspective… an ALPA person currently makes ADG per day plus taxable or non-taxable per diem (local or commuter). That’s 5.15.
I’m currently day tripping it and making 8.18 pay 7.54 credit per day of work with taxable per diem.
Are they making the same as this line pilot? Or much less?
I’m currently day tripping it and making 8.18 pay 7.54 credit per day of work with taxable per diem.
Are they making the same as this line pilot? Or much less?
02-17-2024, 03:50 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 320A
Posts: 625
Thanks for putting this out there. If anything I think they should drastically rope things in, for example no Alpa "work" during the month of December or at least not able to take the entire month off as consistently seem to be the case.
02-17-2024, 05:43 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A319/321 FO
Posts: 315
I wish I had time to craft a longer response.. and maybe I will.
But do you realize, in part, that this change is NECESSARY because NO ONE wants to volunteer for committee work?
Put the full-time FPL LEC/MEC reps aside for a minute, and realize some of the hardest workers within DALPA (RCC, Scheduling, R&I, CASC) all have huge holes in their rosters because there can be much more time off and much bigger paychecks to be had flying the line?
IMO this should have been done a long time ago.
If you want to drive down the ACE response time.. you need people.. in order to get the right people into those positions, you need to make it worthwhile.
More? No. Less. No. Equivalent? Absolutely. There's always going to be someone who tries to manipulate the system to their advantage. Shame on them. But don't toss out the other HUNDREDS of volunteers across committees who put in an honest days labor to serve the pilot group.
But do you realize, in part, that this change is NECESSARY because NO ONE wants to volunteer for committee work?
Put the full-time FPL LEC/MEC reps aside for a minute, and realize some of the hardest workers within DALPA (RCC, Scheduling, R&I, CASC) all have huge holes in their rosters because there can be much more time off and much bigger paychecks to be had flying the line?
IMO this should have been done a long time ago.
If you want to drive down the ACE response time.. you need people.. in order to get the right people into those positions, you need to make it worthwhile.
More? No. Less. No. Equivalent? Absolutely. There's always going to be someone who tries to manipulate the system to their advantage. Shame on them. But don't toss out the other HUNDREDS of volunteers across committees who put in an honest days labor to serve the pilot group.
02-17-2024, 06:13 PM
#7
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by NJGov
I wish I had time to craft a longer response.. and maybe I will.
But do you realize, in part, that this change is NECESSARY because NO ONE wants to volunteer for committee work?
Put the full-time FPL LEC/MEC reps aside for a minute, and realize some of the hardest workers within DALPA (RCC, Scheduling, R&I, CASC) all have huge holes in their rosters because there can be much more time off and much bigger paychecks to be had flying the line?
IMO this should have been done a long time ago.
If you want to drive down the ACE response time.. you need people.. in order to get the right people into those positions, you need to make it worthwhile.
More? No. Less. No. Equivalent? Absolutely. There's always going to be someone who tries to manipulate the system to their advantage. Shame on them. But don't toss out the other HUNDREDS of volunteers across committees who put in an honest days labor to serve the pilot group.
But do you realize, in part, that this change is NECESSARY because NO ONE wants to volunteer for committee work?
Put the full-time FPL LEC/MEC reps aside for a minute, and realize some of the hardest workers within DALPA (RCC, Scheduling, R&I, CASC) all have huge holes in their rosters because there can be much more time off and much bigger paychecks to be had flying the line?
IMO this should have been done a long time ago.
If you want to drive down the ACE response time.. you need people.. in order to get the right people into those positions, you need to make it worthwhile.
More? No. Less. No. Equivalent? Absolutely. There's always going to be someone who tries to manipulate the system to their advantage. Shame on them. But don't toss out the other HUNDREDS of volunteers across committees who put in an honest days labor to serve the pilot group.
It is not easy for the average line pilot to understand who gets paid what in ALPA. Starcheck would be good to give us a very basic level of understanding of what positions are affected by this proposed plus-up.
ALPA was set up as a pilot-run democracy from the bottom up. Our founding documents seem to actively discourage a "greater than the members" sort of hierarchy where ambitious non-flyers become managers over the pilots that they represent.
Some positions require a whole lot more time and effort than line flying does. Typically the "reward" for this effort is the joy of working on a project that you have a passion for and it attracts those good people who find reward in public service; God bless them. Organizations get into a slippery slope when these become much better jobs than the rank and file has and ambitious people start fighting each other.
As far as I know, the open positions in our committees have a lot to do with politics and who those in power exclude than any lack of participation from our membership. If committee chairs have budget issues then they can take that up with the MEC, Chairman and Treasurer as a part of normal business.
02-17-2024, 06:21 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,822
Originally Posted by NJGov
I wish I had time to craft a longer response.. and maybe I will.
But do you realize, in part, that this change is NECESSARY because NO ONE wants to volunteer for committee work?
Put the full-time FPL LEC/MEC reps aside for a minute, and realize some of the hardest workers within DALPA (RCC, Scheduling, R&I, CASC) all have huge holes in their rosters because there can be much more time off and much bigger paychecks to be had flying the line?
IMO this should have been done a long time ago.
If you want to drive down the ACE response time.. you need people.. in order to get the right people into those positions, you need to make it worthwhile.
More? No. Less. No. Equivalent? Absolutely. There's always going to be someone who tries to manipulate the system to their advantage. Shame on them. But don't toss out the other HUNDREDS of volunteers across committees who put in an honest days labor to serve the pilot group.
But do you realize, in part, that this change is NECESSARY because NO ONE wants to volunteer for committee work?
Put the full-time FPL LEC/MEC reps aside for a minute, and realize some of the hardest workers within DALPA (RCC, Scheduling, R&I, CASC) all have huge holes in their rosters because there can be much more time off and much bigger paychecks to be had flying the line?
IMO this should have been done a long time ago.
If you want to drive down the ACE response time.. you need people.. in order to get the right people into those positions, you need to make it worthwhile.
More? No. Less. No. Equivalent? Absolutely. There's always going to be someone who tries to manipulate the system to their advantage. Shame on them. But don't toss out the other HUNDREDS of volunteers across committees who put in an honest days labor to serve the pilot group.
Its a ton of thankless work.
02-17-2024, 06:33 PM
#9
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,555
I’m not sure every new proposed provision is needed, but what I don’t understand is the belief that pilots doing union work shouldn’t make more than your average line pilot. Some committees directly help pilots get more money (negotiating, scheduling, contract admin), some are there as a backstop to pilot mistakes (LEC reps, ASAP, FOQUA, training, etc) and yet others are there for when we have pilots truly in crisis (HIMS, PFMC, etc.). Not every pilot will need every committee in their career, but we as a body should all want a full stable of quality people in those positions should we ever need to call on them. Paying more than a line pilot doesn’t directly guarantee every committee member will be top notch, but it will open the doors to attract a wider range of pilots who otherwise might never consider ALPA work. And that’s something I’m ok with my dues money being spent on.
02-17-2024, 06:34 PM
#10
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by tennisguru
I’m not sure every new proposed provision is needed, but what I don’t understand is the belief that pilots doing union work shouldn’t make more than your average line pilot. Some committees directly help pilots get more money (negotiating, scheduling, contract admin), some are there as a backstop to pilot mistakes (LEC reps, ASAP, FOQUA, training, etc) and yet others are there for when we have pilots truly in crisis (HIMS, PFMC, etc.). Not every pilot will need every committee in their career, but we as a body should all want a full stable of quality people in those positions should we ever need to call on them. Paying more than a line pilot doesn’t directly guarantee every committee member will be top notch, but it will open the doors to attract a wider range of pilots who otherwise might never consider ALPA work. And that’s something I’m ok with my dues money being spent on.
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