Tower Closed/CTAF Ops, FOD check
02-26-2024, 09:11 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Representing the REAL Delta
Posts: 857
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
I'm with your FO on this one zipp.
We have operating procedures for a reason. Asking for a sweep of the runway by airport personnel is not unreasonable if you think it's warranted given the situation. I certainly would not do a back taxi though.
I'm glad to hear that the FO piped up about it. That's what we want from our fellow crew mate. Never take it as an afront to you as a captain. You make the final call after getting inputs whether requested or not. I'd rather have this kind of FO with me than the lump of coal type. It shows to me your FO that morning was listening, engaged and not afraid to voice their concern.
We have operating procedures for a reason. Asking for a sweep of the runway by airport personnel is not unreasonable if you think it's warranted given the situation. I certainly would not do a back taxi though.
I'm glad to hear that the FO piped up about it. That's what we want from our fellow crew mate. Never take it as an afront to you as a captain. You make the final call after getting inputs whether requested or not. I'd rather have this kind of FO with me than the lump of coal type. It shows to me your FO that morning was listening, engaged and not afraid to voice their concern.
I’ve operated out of uncontrolled fields constantly during the early part of my career. At Delta we need reminders on how it should be done. As a whole, we suck at it.
The argument about spending more time on the runway is moronic. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t be doing uncontrolled ops in the first place. We already spend 2 minutes on the runway during the takeoff roll anyway. That’s exposure.
If zip wants CYA, that’s his prerogative. The guys saying this “technique” is unsafe are idiots.
02-26-2024, 09:13 AM
#22
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 669
Well that'll just about do it for the flybys. Yes, you're out in left field.
Isn't Zip the same guy that told us a harrowing "out of left field" story about getting kicket out of a hotel during a day sleep, because he refused to let mantenance into his room to fix a leak, and then got into it with the manager.
Either he's yanking our chains, or he's... prone to overthink things and act irrationally.
Isn't Zip the same guy that told us a harrowing "out of left field" story about getting kicket out of a hotel during a day sleep, because he refused to let mantenance into his room to fix a leak, and then got into it with the manager.
Either he's yanking our chains, or he's... prone to overthink things and act irrationally.
02-26-2024, 09:15 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Representing the REAL Delta
Posts: 857
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
Well that'll just about do it for the flybys. Yes, you're out in left field.
Isn't Zip the same guy that told us a harrowing "out of left field" story about getting kicket out of a hotel during a day sleep, because he refused to let mantenance into his room to fix a leak, and then got into it with the manager.
Either he's yanking our chains, or he's... prone to overthink things and act irrationally.
Isn't Zip the same guy that told us a harrowing "out of left field" story about getting kicket out of a hotel during a day sleep, because he refused to let mantenance into his room to fix a leak, and then got into it with the manager.
Either he's yanking our chains, or he's... prone to overthink things and act irrationally.
And now your rational thinker? That made me laugh.
02-26-2024, 09:16 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,987
Originally Posted by cornbeef007
If zip wants CYA, that’s his prerogative. The guys saying this “technique” is unsafe are idiots.
The best CYA is following Delta procedures.
02-26-2024, 09:19 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Representing the REAL Delta
Posts: 857
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
It's not a CYA though, it's paranoia. You would be much more likely to get in trouble for having some sort of incident due to performing your made up FOD check than you would be for not doing it.
The best CYA is following Delta procedures.
The best CYA is following Delta procedures.
Another valid point is to check for contamination. Do you think the airport dudes do hourly checks at night? They don’t.
I’ve spent a lot of time at uncontrolled fields. I’ve seen crazy stuff. I don’t do this procedure but saying he is wrong isn’t correct.
02-26-2024, 09:21 AM
#26
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: 320/A
Posts: 875
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
I'm with your FO on this one zipp.
We have operating procedures for a reason. Asking for a sweep of the runway by airport personnel is not unreasonable if you think it's warranted given the situation. I certainly would not do a back taxi though.
I'm glad to hear that the FO piped up about it. That's what we want from our fellow crew mate. Never take it as an afront to you as a captain. You make the final call after getting inputs whether requested or not. I'd rather have this kind of FO with me than the lump of coal type. It shows to me your FO that morning was listening, engaged and not afraid to voice their concern.
We have operating procedures for a reason. Asking for a sweep of the runway by airport personnel is not unreasonable if you think it's warranted given the situation. I certainly would not do a back taxi though.
I'm glad to hear that the FO piped up about it. That's what we want from our fellow crew mate. Never take it as an afront to you as a captain. You make the final call after getting inputs whether requested or not. I'd rather have this kind of FO with me than the lump of coal type. It shows to me your FO that morning was listening, engaged and not afraid to voice their concern.
02-26-2024, 09:22 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by cornbeef007
Operating procedures? Where does it say that he can’t do this? We are authorized to back-taxi, right?
I’ve operated out of uncontrolled fields constantly during the early part of my career. At Delta we need reminders on how it should be done. As a whole, we suck at it.
The argument about spending more time on the runway is moronic. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t be doing uncontrolled ops in the first place. We already spend 2 minutes on the runway during the takeoff roll anyway. That’s exposure.
If zip wants CYA, that’s his prerogative. The guys saying this “technique” is unsafe are idiots.
I’ve operated out of uncontrolled fields constantly during the early part of my career. At Delta we need reminders on how it should be done. As a whole, we suck at it.
The argument about spending more time on the runway is moronic. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t be doing uncontrolled ops in the first place. We already spend 2 minutes on the runway during the takeoff roll anyway. That’s exposure.
If zip wants CYA, that’s his prerogative. The guys saying this “technique” is unsafe are idiots.
There are countless items that you could go overboard double checking in the name of CYA. But doing them doesn’t necessarily make things safer.
We have established procedures for operating at uncontrolled fields. I agree that they could use more emphasis, but it should focus on proper use of CTAF, responsibilities for clearances, and other areas that are our direct responsibility and differ from normal ops.
If there was a real threat from FOD that wasn’t already adequately addressed by required airport ops procedures, it would be mentioned somewhere in our manuals.
02-26-2024, 09:25 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Representing the REAL Delta
Posts: 857
Originally Posted by bugman61
Do you verify that tech ops torques every fastener to spec? Supervise ACS loading and securing cargo? Follow your PM to make sure they do the walk around to your satisfaction? Make sure the FAs correctly brief exits and arm doors?
There are countless items that you could go overboard double checking in the name of CYA. But doing them doesn’t necessarily make things safer.
We have established procedures for operating at uncontrolled fields. I agree that they could use more emphasis, but it should focus on proper use of CTAF, responsibilities for clearances, and other areas that are our direct responsibility and differ from normal ops.
If there was a real threat from FOD that wasn’t already adequately addressed by required airport ops procedures, it would be mentioned somewhere in our manuals.
There are countless items that you could go overboard double checking in the name of CYA. But doing them doesn’t necessarily make things safer.
We have established procedures for operating at uncontrolled fields. I agree that they could use more emphasis, but it should focus on proper use of CTAF, responsibilities for clearances, and other areas that are our direct responsibility and differ from normal ops.
If there was a real threat from FOD that wasn’t already adequately addressed by required airport ops procedures, it would be mentioned somewhere in our manuals.
There are a lot of things we do that are in the name of safety, that aren’t spelled out.
02-26-2024, 09:26 AM
#29
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,414
The correct answer here, as many have stated, is to follow Delta procedures. No Delta procedures or techniques recommend back taxiing down an uncontrolled runway to do a FOD check. Delta Captains have had a rough few days on social media. Lets not add fuel to the fire
02-26-2024, 09:31 AM
#30
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,987
Originally Posted by cornbeef007
Why do you guys keep saying procedures? Where does it say you can’t backtaxi at an uncontrolled field?
There are a lot of things we do that are in the name of safety, that aren’t spelled out.
There are a lot of things we do that are in the name of safety, that aren’t spelled out.
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