787-10 Order Imminent?
12-05-2025 | 03:02 PM
#531
Respek
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,910
Likes: 48
It’s a shame global scope will prevent that unless they MASSIVELY increase OUR flying into partner hubs.
Not sure where your guess is coming from, but I sincerely doubt that outside of a black swan.
People tend to forget that our WB fleet in 2018 was 148.
It’s 179 today, with 24 still to be delivered.
Not sure where your guess is coming from, but I sincerely doubt that outside of a black swan.
People tend to forget that our WB fleet in 2018 was 148.
It’s 179 today, with 24 still to be delivered.
for either us or them to take back stateside.
12-05-2025 | 05:14 PM
#532
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 120
It works if you are willing to pay Airbus for it. Increased MGTOW is simply a matter of dollars. We can't get to Europe with our current NEO's. But the XLR would be no prob. Just need to pay for it. Ed didn't discount it either. Just said he and our customers prefer WB. Not that we'd never ever do it on NB.
12-05-2025 | 05:21 PM
#533
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 144
From: UNA
My guess is a lot of the secondary European cities go away completely and folks just
connect to the hub via our partner airlines. There’s just no real estate left to expand these airports nor enough of a demand to do it any other way. Cheaper and easier running it through a partner to the 5-6 big Euro hubs and call it a day. That’s speaking nothing to the fact that we can’t get airplanes delivered in a remotely reasonable time frame.
connect to the hub via our partner airlines. There’s just no real estate left to expand these airports nor enough of a demand to do it any other way. Cheaper and easier running it through a partner to the 5-6 big Euro hubs and call it a day. That’s speaking nothing to the fact that we can’t get airplanes delivered in a remotely reasonable time frame.
Which he will change his mind about the moment AAL or UAL can prove that it works. Wait, I can sell 16 D1 seats at $2500 a pop, 12 PS seats at $1200 a pop, and only burn 50k of fuel to get to western Europe/57k back to the US, um yes, I'll take that deal.
Take a close look at how many 32Ns are already going into northeastern USA airports already, and AAL/UAL haven't begun to utilize them yet.
I'll bet we have an XLR (or 322 if it happens) order by EOY 2027 (unless the 797 materializes before then) if the AAL/UAL experiment is successful. We'll know by this time next year. Plus we can use them to replace the 757s to Hawaii during the winter from LAX/SEA come 2032 (or whenever they retire the 757) in a non-D1 configuration.
Take a close look at how many 32Ns are already going into northeastern USA airports already, and AAL/UAL haven't begun to utilize them yet.
I'll bet we have an XLR (or 322 if it happens) order by EOY 2027 (unless the 797 materializes before then) if the AAL/UAL experiment is successful. We'll know by this time next year. Plus we can use them to replace the 757s to Hawaii during the winter from LAX/SEA come 2032 (or whenever they retire the 757) in a non-D1 configuration.
ATL-south America on the other hand might have some potential.
2) we don’t need the XLR to do Hawaii. Hawaiian flies 321 NEOs (not LRs or XLRs) from Hawaii all over the west coast. My understanding is our performance issues were related to the fact we did not get the second fuel tank that was popular with everyone else flying west coast-Hawaii and that why we were seeing some issues.
Last edited by Gone Flying; 12-05-2025 at 05:34 PM.
12-05-2025 | 05:34 PM
#534
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Joined: Mar 2024
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It doesn’t work for JetBlue because they have the wrong airplane to make it happen.
12-05-2025 | 06:53 PM
#535
Has a furrowed brow
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 182
12-05-2025 | 08:03 PM
#536
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 3,252
Likes: 628
Which he will change his mind about the moment AAL or UAL can prove that it works. Wait, I can sell 16 D1 seats at $2500 a pop, 12 PS seats at $1200 a pop, and only burn 50k of fuel to get to western Europe/57k back to the US, um yes, I'll take that deal.
Take a close look at how many 32Ns are already going into northeastern USA airports already, and AAL/UAL haven't begun to utilize them yet.
I'll bet we have an XLR (or 322 if it happens) order by EOY 2027 (unless the 797 materializes before then) if the AAL/UAL experiment is successful. We'll know by this time next year. Plus we can use them to replace the 757s to Hawaii during the winter from LAX/SEA come 2032 (or whenever they retire the 757) in a non-D1 configuration.
Take a close look at how many 32Ns are already going into northeastern USA airports already, and AAL/UAL haven't begun to utilize them yet.
I'll bet we have an XLR (or 322 if it happens) order by EOY 2027 (unless the 797 materializes before then) if the AAL/UAL experiment is successful. We'll know by this time next year. Plus we can use them to replace the 757s to Hawaii during the winter from LAX/SEA come 2032 (or whenever they retire the 757) in a non-D1 configuration.
Not happening. We don't care if united jet blue or American fly them over there.
12-05-2025 | 08:05 PM
#537
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 3,252
Likes: 628
It works if you are willing to pay Airbus for it. Increased MGTOW is simply a matter of dollars. We can't get to Europe with our current NEO's. But the XLR would be no prob. Just need to pay for it. Ed didn't discount it either. Just said he and our customers prefer WB. Not that we'd never ever do it on NB.
12-06-2025 | 01:56 AM
#538
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Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 412
Likes: 42
This has been pursued before and is almost always a short term bump. Longer term, others will add the capacity that we don’t if we don’t go after them in the short term. JB dumping hundreds of thousands of half prices premium lay flat seats a year across the Atlantic while we whistle past the capacity discipline gate while UAL rapidly catches up to us domestically will make tomorrows negative pressure even more pronounced compared to the nominal gains of today.
Capacity isn’t an issue. We are increasing capacity while starting at a far higher level than United is. A ton of their domestic flying is regional or non-existent - they need the capacity dump that will take some years to develop to be where we are today. Mainly, because they have no fortress hub like ATL, DFW, SLC, DTW, or MSP.
The XLR is not proven to be a winner - it’s likely to be a loser. It’ll likely go PO most of the time in the cabin or down below. Most niche European markets can support a 330 or 787 they’re going nowhere. The XLR is extremely inflexible. If it can’t do its job for that one niche Euro market it’s a money burner. Management committing to WB’s is either luck or forced direction by GS due to our partners + new partners growing WB’s aggressively: we must match. Everyone should be happy that the WB-PAYING fleet will likely break 210+ after the deliveries are all said and done with a new type. Likely needing a ton of hiring to staff so many WB’s and incoming NB’s.
Last edited by Ripinpeace; 12-06-2025 at 02:09 AM.
12-06-2025 | 03:23 AM
#539
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,142
Likes: 133
Crazy how someone will always find a way to complain. Management has said it wants only WB’s on TATL, it wants a 5+ year Asia , ME, Africa expansion, it wants to take TPAC volume from United, we have 20 very large 35K to go + 20 more options, and the likely event of a 60 + option 787 order SJS galore, new international destinations launched left and right - all with a very healthy NB order book plagued by supply chain issues.
Capacity isn’t an issue. We are increasing capacity while starting at a far higher level than United is. A ton of their domestic flying is regional or non-existent - they need the capacity dump that will take some years to develop to be where we are today. Mainly, because they have no fortress hub like ATL, DFW, SLC, DTW, or MSP.
The XLR is not proven to be a winner - it’s likely to be a loser. It’ll likely go PO most of the time in the cabin or down below. Most niche European markets can support a 330 or 787 they’re going nowhere. The XLR is extremely inflexible. If it can’t do its job for that one niche Euro market it’s a money burner. Management committing to WB’s is either luck or forced direction by GS due to our partners + new partners growing WB’s aggressively: we must match. Everyone should be happy that the WB-PAYING fleet will likely break 210+ after the deliveries are all said and done with a new type. Likely needing a ton of hiring to staff so many WB’s and incoming NB’s.
Capacity isn’t an issue. We are increasing capacity while starting at a far higher level than United is. A ton of their domestic flying is regional or non-existent - they need the capacity dump that will take some years to develop to be where we are today. Mainly, because they have no fortress hub like ATL, DFW, SLC, DTW, or MSP.
The XLR is not proven to be a winner - it’s likely to be a loser. It’ll likely go PO most of the time in the cabin or down below. Most niche European markets can support a 330 or 787 they’re going nowhere. The XLR is extremely inflexible. If it can’t do its job for that one niche Euro market it’s a money burner. Management committing to WB’s is either luck or forced direction by GS due to our partners + new partners growing WB’s aggressively: we must match. Everyone should be happy that the WB-PAYING fleet will likely break 210+ after the deliveries are all said and done with a new type. Likely needing a ton of hiring to staff so many WB’s and incoming NB’s.
12-06-2025 | 04:16 AM
#540
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Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 412
Likes: 42
While United could never scale to Delta’s domestic footprint due to no hub in the most populous U.S. region of the nation and weaker hub structure (splintered completion, high costs, prone to delays, cramped, no SE/fortress hub). I could go on and on with more debt, less market cap, dated labor contracts, weaker Chase deal, weaker partners, more RJ reliance, etc. etc. Can revisit United catching up to Delta in a decade maybe. It’s a bonus that Delta’s trajectory makes you upset 😁
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