Well, densifying the urban landscape means you have to have these cities desirable places to live. I haven’t been to many I would want to live in.

Different strokes for different folks.
I grew up in small town suburbs and swore to never to return. Living in a sunbelt sprawl city or suburban area is unthinkable to me. I would live in the true country if I had a community/family there, but suburbs? Hell no. Suburbs depress the hell out of me. Since I left my parents house I've only lived in urban areas.

Are you a green plant or a FOC (friend of China)? Coal is clean if burned correctly. The while plume coming out of stacks is steam…. You could stick your face in that plume and get a steam bath. Wind has not been good and only makes sense is very windy environments or very rural off grid areas. A wind generator doesn’t make enough electricity in its lifespan to overcome the cost of building it. And big solar farms are hit or miss. Where solar would be more reasonable is to mandate (in areas where there’s enough yearly sunlight and cloudless days, no trees etc) that every new home built/condo/apartment building to have mandatory solar panels on the roofs. Then solar makes sense. The combined solar output in those communities augments the KW needed to power those communities.

Fly into Vegas, Phoenix, Cali and scratch your head why there’s not solar on every roof. Big solar farms can be wiped out by 1 freak hail storm. As it’s already happened.

Nothing beats good old fashioned nuclear and fossil fuel use. Augment this power with solar and use wind only where it’s needed. But the rest is a joke.

Welp, I've reached the bottom of the Internet today. I better go outside and touch some sand.

if your media diet has fed you this, you really need to rethink the places from which you receive information

This post was brought to you by ExxonMobil

Say/think what you like, but there is no real way to replace diesel powered rail and semi trucking in the US. And…nuclear really is the best answer for clean power.

He's correct. That's why your bestest buddies over in Euro land are now scrambling to construct traditional power generation capabilities - to include nuclear (gasp).

Solar, wind, although it can kinda sorta augment traditional power generation, it's proven over there to be a failure for reliable energy.

Look no more than the Ivanpah Solar plant. It cost over $2.2 billion to build (yeah right, at least 10% went to line some pockets). It made it about a decade and now it's being shuttered. Greenies will tell that it wasn't for the fact it was a colossal failure at power generation and plagued with bugs and glitches, no. They will tell you that the solar technology is "outdated" and needs to be replaced. Yeah sure.

No, it's really the state of California finally realizing that traditional sources of power generation are better (efficiency, cost, reliability). And more reliable. Did I mention that?

We gave you all a chance to prove your green technologies would work. We told you they would not suffice. Yet we had to waste trillions on this stuff (should have been building more nat gas, coal and nuclear plants instead) just to appease your unicorns and rainbows aspirations. Although noble, in some crazy way, it had to go down like this. Nat gas, coal are very clean now (nat gas was always a clean burner). Nuclear is not your father's (maybe grandfathers for some of you) TMI anymore either. You had your fun, now adults are back in charge.

If you want solar and wind, put it on your house.

Keep your head in the hole green ostrich. The truth will set you free. You’ve been brainwashed. There’s no such thing as green energy or renewable. Do some research and take down the Al Gore poster in your porn room. He’s a sham.

we talked about how you’re wrong about ivanpah in another thread, but here it is again.

and no, he’s not right about the energy required to construct a wind generator.

At an extraordinary cost for that wind generated kilowatt, you are correct. But an apples to apples comparison, not even close to coal or natural gas. The price for wind vs fossil fuel electric generation is more and when you add the necessary fossil fuel backup, which is needed when (gasp) the wind stops blowing or the sun doesn’t shine it’s not even close.

For commercial/large size windmills, it’s well in excess of a decade to break even, sometimes nearly 2 decades. The lifespan is approximately 25 years, at least from what I can find. So it will pay for itself eventually, but it’s no panacea. I think they finally found some way to recycle the used blades finally, other than burying Oh them in the dirt. So there’s that.

Bring on nuclear! Even France realizes that it is a great option.

the energy payback is much shorter than a decade, more like less than a year to a few years, and the carbon payback is similarly short. stop getting news from memes

heres a link to the editor of the book from which this falsehood originates, explaining how the meme is wrong:

https://homerdixon.com/resource/no-not-say-wind-energy-idiot-power/

ah, so now you’ve moved the goalposts from being wrong about energy payback to being wrong about cost per kilowatt. why don’t we stick to one claim all the way through?

Oh look, it's the tried and true devolution of renewable energy discourse into hippie earth saving granola bullsh!t and once again never speaking in terms of national security and energy independence.

Yawn...

Funny how China is covering their landscape in solar panels though. Yes, famous tree hugging hippies: THE CHINESE. The CCP folded to the environmentalist "Save the Pangolin!" Campaign...:D

But the way, all for nuclear energy. Split baby split! (As in the atom)

Hey, easy. I have some journalistic integridy.....some

if this is where you got your knowledge on the subject, rethink your media diet and ask why the person making it or reposting it wants to lie to you

https://i.ibb.co/QvZXZFtZ/IMG-5647.jpg

Well China is leaning heavy into renewables. No one is claiming renewables are cheap, just renewable.

Nuclear is a great option (as I've been advocating for) but also very expensive to build. While microreactors are coming, they aren't here yet and really are only a good idea in remote areas. Besides that the traditional plant makes sense but those take name and money while not even discussing nimbyism. You're obviously a Navy guy so you've been around nuclear power. There's still drawbacks but the goods outweigh the negatives.

We had solar panels on my house in Florida in the 1980s. California is putting solar farms over aqueducts which provide a double win: no extra land required and the microclimate from the cool water helps keep the cells more efficient.

And no matter how you burn coal, it's not clean, has nasty by products. The entire world has moved on from coal. China has even realized they need to move on from coal.

Harvard, that bastion of conservative thought, has something to say about the overall cost of wind
https://hbr.org/2024/02/the-long-ter...-wind-turbines

that we need to account for the full lifecycle cost and externalities in any power generating system? yeah, of course. that article does not, however, support the notion that tailhookah got from a meme.


it does make an interesting point that turbine size must be matched to the project’s particulars, something we as a society are learning just like we have with many technologies.

The article cautions that the hype of ‘cheap’ energy from wind is not really all that cheap. People want to look at ROI as what it cost to build vs how much power it produces. ‘The rest of the story’ as Paul Harvey used to say is a little more complex … and expensive.

it is indeed. that’s a far cry from the nonsense tailhookah was peddling.

What non-sense is that? That wind and solar are not viable or reliable sources of energy? They're most certainly not. What's France doing now BTW? Germany? Building traditional plants - to include nuclear.

It's all out there OOfff and belittling us and inferring we are less than intelligent on the matter and you are the "expert" is the mentality that puts in the place where we can't have nice things. It's not binary OOfff. We've tried the grand experiment and it doesn't work. You've met the enemy and he is you (POGO).

Nothing wrong with using wind and/or solar to supplement traditional power, but it's been proven that relying solely on it for the majority of supply to your grid is a fools errand. Pound for pound, liter to liter organic fuels are absolutely the most efficient and least costly. Nuclear has come a long way as well. The new reactors Westinghouse has designed are quite impressive. You should go read up on them.

Curious where you are getting your info. France is doing fine.

Carbon neutrality. Scary

perhaps read the posts i’ve made, where i very specifically call out tailhookah’s comments.

or just rage

Show me that I’m wrong. From actual electric bills. Tell me why electricity is 3-5x more in Germany, France, Denmark and other countries that shelled their fossil fuel programs and went green. Or even the parts of the us that embraced wind. Much much higher electricity bills. Why is that? You explain that?

The Chinese are dropping 2-3 new coal plants per month also. Guess coal is the new old energy. Since the smart Chinese are doing it…. Right?

goalposts moved again. aside from the meme i posted, where did you get that the energy repayment is negative?

I have never even seen your meme. I did my own research. Again, for the larger farms, which is what I am really talking about, it’s a decade, give or take (and can vary by individual location due to wind speed/contancy/remoteness/etc).

I read everyone of your posts here.

But were you not the person posting about 5-6 months ago about how bad tariffs were going to be? They just used tariff revenue to keep WIC funding. Tariff revenue also supports many other USDA programs, instead of our tax money. When have you ever seen that done OOfff?

What I'm getting at here is that you are often not the smartest person in the room. None of us really are. However, we can look at the information out there and present it for others consumption. The power experiment with wind and solar has pretty much run its course globally. Reality is a powerful thing.

gosh, i would hate for you to feel like someone thinks they’re smarter than you. maybe we should head back to the 787 thread so you can pretend to be “the smartest guy in the room” over there? glass houses and all that


as for tariffs, i think we will see inflation coming home to roost on that front, but i, like you, am not an economist. i am but an idiot with a keyboard

even if it’s a decade (it isn’t), in a 20-year lifespan you’re 50% ahead.

Responding to your post because it is short in the quote portion. Not singling you out specifically. :)

While I am certain there are many quality websites I am ignorant of, may I recommend Energysleptic.org

Everyone posting the last few pages should find information there that would be of interest.

At least you use periods. Now if only you could start your sentences with capital letters.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65785

There’s the whole article

Must be great using traiffs (otherwise known as taxes paid by the populace) to pay for things

Tariffs are just another consumption tax. Price of goods go up, so does inflation.

But since we keep firing the people that track this information I’m sure it’s all on the up and up

According to Center for Economic and Policy Research the actual recent tariffs have been about 8.5% of import goods. Even though promised at 17.5%.

Large importers tend to not be paying them. They make "deals", so they avoid them. (actually the "deals" would be more accurately called purchase and sale agreements. Same as the international trade deals)
Example: Apple CEO gave the current President gift of a gold medallion. On television no less. As a result, Apple is now exempt from the 100% tariffs on semi-conductors and the tariffs on smartphones.

This shows up in the more recent job loss figures. They are being borne mostly by small and midsize employers.
They simply can't pay the protection racket money. So they get hit with the tariffs.

The reason there hasn't been more inflation from tariffs is they aren't being applied in the amounts stated.

So it’s a grift and a con job

And so does Iran...😁