Hi all. With the recent uptick in NB A postings, I'm curious if it'd be a fools errand for a junior pilot (~14,200 seniority range) to have a bid in for DTW 717a. What's the probability that we see mandatory displacements in the next year or two? The projected staffing is showing a 13.4% decrease in DTW 717a between now and August, yet, they're still posting new positions.. Is this normal behavior for a shrinking category? Would Delta typically give notice prior to a major MD, or do they typically hold their cards close to the chest in these situations? I've heard the "2030" figure thrown around as a 717 retirement date, but nothing in regards to the DTW base specifically.. The delays in new Wi-Fi/LPV, and ongoing wing spar inspections, don't give me the warm and fuzzies either..


Obviously this is conjecture, and "BWYWWWYB", but I'm curious if anyone had any insight for us junior folks with bids in. Thank you!

 

I just assume they don’t have much of a strategy past 3-6 months. And if they did they will often signal the opposite (ie the BOS base.)

 

They won't say anything about starting to close the category until it shows up in an AE. That being said - the lack of new Wifi install is a telling sign. They wouldn't install it if they think they are parking them in the near term (less than 2-3 years I'm guessing). LPV is a little less clear because there are operational reasons for it as I understand.

In the end, it comes down to what you think will happen in the next 3 years. It's not crazy to go to the 717A, then if it riding off into the sunset, take the MD and go to something else. I personally would guess they'll replace the 717 flying with the 737-800 as the Maxes come online. The 220, while a similar size, is much more efficient on longer stage lengths.

 

I wouldn't mind this one bit. My concern is with taking the upgrade, then facing an immediate MD to the right seat (if they continue to shrink the category aggressively). I guess its a function of how many people retire off of the top, or have a voluntary displacement bid in.

 

The answer depends on how willing are you to spend a month away from home in training in ATL.

Worst case scenario you're looking at a 717A IQ, a downgrade NBB IQ, and then a third A IQ if you chose to then immediately upgrade to DTW320 or 737 potentially in a very short time since you won't have a seat lock from the MD.

 

The A220 is being used to replace most of the 717 flying at MSP beginning in May. (320s and RJs picking up the rest) Delta’s published flight schedule shows the 220 taking bunch of short haul out of MSP from the 717 too, legs like ORD, MCI, STL, and MKE.

Don’t see any 717 routes being replaced by 737s yet.

 

the 220 may be more efficient on longer routes, but most of our fleet is. I think the whole “the 220 only works on longer routes” comes from the fact it was our first modern engine NB and for several years was the only one and we only had a couple dozen of them. Now we have close to 100 220s, 100 321NEOs another 150ish combined more on order plus 100 maxes. Now that our fleet looks like that we are seeing 220s and NEOs on plenty of shorter routes and I imagine we will see the 220 continue to take over flying from the 717.

network will match capacity when it can.

also almost all our 738s are older than our 717s. I believe they will certainly out last the 717, but they won’t be around forever.

 

Lots of A's have bailed (myself included) with almost zero backfills, they probably listed these 10 spots because they needed to balance staffing for summer. They've been talking about LPV and Wifi for a few years, but that can keeps getting kicked down the road and I wouldn't be surprised to see it get kicked again...and again. I had planned on staying for the long haul, but saw the writing on the wall and didn't care to keep sliding backward in seniority as junior pilots bailed.

It could be worth it if you're looking to score a bit of extra cash (or a paid move via a MD) and can do a short course. Otherwise, that's a lot of time on Va Ave, in a short amount of time. Unless you really love Va Ave and sims, look at the bus, there are so many options for short courses down the line.



Very few of the senior guys are going anywhere. There are a fair amount of commuters at the top, so I suspect some will follow it to ATL. Retirements likely won't help much as there are less than 10 scheduled DTW717A retirements between now and the end of 2030.


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Yup, they're already taking our MSP-STL and MSP-ORD routes. So much for it not being a replacement for the 717 legs lol.

 

More planes keep showing up with roof wifi antennas. Airplane ain't going anywhere in the next 2 years. Lots of news in here from people who aren't even on the fleet. If you're a 717B, it's a no-brainer to upgrade (if that's what you want). Enjoy a VD/MD if it comes...but the airplane is doing just fine. Read a newsletter if you don't believe me.

 

New WiFi is coming. I’ve already flown one with it and it works great.

One fun fact for others not on the fleet - Delta loses access to the F999a network bandwidth in May. So starting in May if a 717 doesn’t have the new WiFi then it’ll have no WiFi. Just in time for peak thunderstorm season! It sounds like most of the WiFi installs will be towards the back half of the year, so probably close to 2/3 of the fleet will be flying in the summer with no WiFi. No joke - our fleet bulletin suggested that pilots screenshot widget WX before leaving the gate to reference in flight for “long term planning”…