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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1193812)
As the resident graphic designer, would it be possible for you to gen up a flow chart showing the scope tradeoffs? IOW how many large "regional" jets can come online at any given time, and in conjunction with the removal of how many 50 seaters... how many 717s do we have to actually see in DAL livery before the company can buy any large "regional" jets? It will be a tough assignment. Probably harder than making sense of an insurance policy... But you seem to have a good handle on the graphic stuff needed. Possible?
1. How many large RJs can come online at any given time? 2. When do the 50 seaters have to exit/ 3. How many 717s have to show up before RJs can show? Let me research that, I've seen that once the order is placed the growth of large RJs does not have to be balanced and the balance doesn't take place until 2014. So a little more verification on Section 1 would be interesting to see what a balancing in 2014 would look like if we announce 717s today, all the RJs are ordered and we expand large DCI in mass, park mainline DC-9s, 88s, 320s, 757s and 763s then balance the checkbook. ^^^ if that didn't make any sense it's because I wrote it. :D |
Originally Posted by porpilot
(Post 1193832)
Can someone do the math.....
#large rj's added X pilots per plane= amount of jobs lost at Delta |
As I understand it, to add the full 70 76 seaters, they have to add 88 717s or 319s. (70x1.25=87.5)
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Reposting:
This is the first time anything at Delta has made me wake up angry in the middle of the night. Folks, we work for arguably the world's most successful, most profitable airline. If not quite there yet, we are most definitely on that trajectory. We should feel absolutely insulted at the peanuts we are being offered in exchange for scope and profit sharing cuts. We are so beaten down by five years of stagnation that we are thirsty for anything that sounds like an improvement. The rest of the industry is counting on us to raise the bar! If we don't get a good contract now, in the best of times, when management is dying to sign one, how in he!! are we going to get one down the road, let's say in 2015, after the next 9/11 or natural disaster? This TA does not raise the bar - it lowers it, to the point the other pilot organizations will trip on it. Look at the immediate response from Jeff Smisek to the UCAL pilots - "The DL guys are giving away scope for a little pay. You guys will need to do the same. Let's get this done." Let's prove him wrong! Let's show management, the analysts, and ALPA that we cannot be forced into a corner by the false "urgency" being pushed at us. There are so many loopholes in this TA it has absolutely no teeth. Production balances that disappear if anything happens that Delta cannot control? Like what, oil going up? An earthquake? A hull loss? It's preposterous we would sign something like that. I would much rather keep our current TA for the next three years. It is obviously applying some pressure to management that's driving them to the bargaining table (probably the 255 cap on large RJs). By signing POS2012, we lose that leverage. We give management PLENTY of large RJs to continue to replace mainline flying throughout the system. And, when 2015 does get here, they have zero motivation to do a new contract quickly. Negotiations end up stagnating then, instead of now, and in the meantime we mainline pilots are replaced at a much greater rate. Let's not continue to sell this profession down the river for a pittance. Vote no! |
Been a non-posting lurker here on APC for probably the last 8+years and this ridiculous TA is the item that has brought me out of lurking (it has taken quite the effort to "bite my tongue" on issues in this thread over the years).
All I can say is.... WOW. I can't believe they sent this out to the membership. Absolute NO vote from me. |
Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
(Post 1193865)
As I understand it, to add the full 70 76 seaters, they have to add 88 717s or 319s. (70x1.25=87.5)
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Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
(Post 1193865)
As I understand it, to add the full 70 76 seaters, they have to add 88 717s or 319s. (70x1.25=87.5)
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Looking at the number of aircraft that we are down since the merger, we would essentially be selling scope so the company could replace the aircraft that have already been parked. This is a very flawed strategy by our MEC. Yet I have a feeling it will be sold as growth.
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Originally Posted by Roadie85
(Post 1193839)
How did the NC approve this 4:30 a day. With a carve out after 10pm. Most red eyes depart after 10pm, so we'll continue to see 3 day trips worth 10:30. A 4 day trip can pay 18:00. Modest pay raise, relaxing scope and making us work more days is not worth this rush job contract. Is this what the "Pilot Survey" says we want? I hope not. I want the NC to go back and clean up this mess.
The company still enjoys about 1.2 billion a year in cost savings from LOA 46 and the 1113 contract. The solution is simple. Vote it down and we can enter the traditional process. Let the company know loud and clear your feelings on the contract. Take the time to walk in and speak with your CP. Send a email to Steve Dickson. |
Originally Posted by FlyZ
(Post 1193866)
Reposting:
This is the first time anything at Delta has made me wake up angry in the middle of the night. Folks, we work for arguably the world's most successful, most profitable airline. If not quite there yet, we are most definitely on that trajectory. We should feel absolutely insulted at the peanuts we are being offered in exchange for scope and profit sharing cuts. We are so beaten down by five years of stagnation that we are thirsty for anything that sounds like an improvement. The rest of the industry is counting on us to raise the bar! If we don't get a good contract now, in the best of times, when management is dying to sign one, how in he!! are we going to get one down the road, let's say in 2015, after the next 9/11 or natural disaster? This TA does not raise the bar - it lowers it, to the point the other pilot organizations will trip on it. Look at the immediate response from Jeff Smisek to the UCAL pilots - "The DL guys are giving away scope for a little pay. You guys will need to do the same. Let's get this done." Let's prove him wrong! Let's show management, the analysts, and ALPA that we cannot be forced into a corner by the false "urgency" being pushed at us. There are so many loopholes in this TA it has absolutely no teeth. Production balances that disappear if anything happens that Delta cannot control? Like what, oil going up? An earthquake? A hull loss? It's preposterous we would sign something like that. I would much rather keep our current TA for the next three years. It is obviously applying some pressure to management that's driving them to the bargaining table (probably the 255 cap on large RJs). By signing POS2012, we lose that leverage. We give management PLENTY of large RJs to continue to replace mainline flying throughout the system. And, when 2015 does get here, they have zero motivation to do a new contract quickly. Negotiations end up stagnating then, instead of now, and in the meantime we mainline pilots are replaced at a much greater rate. Let's not continue to sell this profession down the river for a pittance. Vote no! 100% correct. The one thing I haven't seen is that in three years (IF the TA is ratified) what happens to all the larger RJ's? Most of the Jet Services Agreement's last about 10 yrs not 3. Scary and I am not even a DAL pilot. Good luck guys |
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