Originally Posted by whitt767 (Post 532066)

Seattle Council 54 Flash Update

January 5, 2009


TO: All SEA Pilots

FROM: Jim Stuart, Council 54 Chairman
Jeff Panioto, Council 54 Vice Chairman
Art Aaron, Council 54 Secretary-Treasurer


This is your LEC perspective regarding our current situation.

1. First and foremost each of us must focus on SAFETY. With the dramatic
changes that have and will occur in our company, it can be easy at times to
be distracted from the task at hand when we are in the cockpit. Take care.

2. Please read the Ziplines published by our MEC officers on December 22,
2008. Your Council 54 officers wholeheartedly support the position
articulated in that message. That Ziplines also effectively speaks to several
important issues confronting all of us.

3. The NWA and Delta MECs are scheduled to meet the middle of this month for
the purpose of combining into one MEC. The timing of this event is problematic because we have not resolved three major issues before us.

.. Determine a fair dispute resolution process for the millions of dollars
at stake for the premerger NWA pilots. So far, Captain Moak has insisted that
the former Delta ALPA pilots prosecute the grievances on behalf of the
former NWA pilots. Former Delta pilots, in discussions with Delta
management, would then determine what a fair settlement would be for the former NWA
pilots.

How motivated do you think the former Delta pilots will be in
getting money from management on our behalf? Remember Letter 19! Former Delta ALPA,
in discussions with Delta management, was willing to have the former NWA
pilots be on a B-scale for three years while they continued to get pay
raises.

.. Determine a fair dispute resolution process for seniority list arguments
resulting from the acquisition of replacement aircraft, furloughs, or many
other critical issues.

.. Determine a fair dispute resolution process regarding the transition of
the former NWA pilots to the new Delta pilot working agreement. Of
particular note so far, the former Delta ALPA and Delta management want to
keep the former NWA pilots on different duty rigs and monthly caps until
basically SOC (implementation of single operating certificate). That means
not only are we paid less than the former Delta pilots for the next year or so,
but it might also deprive us of hundreds of pilot jobs due to the staffing
difference between the two contracts.

Were this to continue, we would be on a partial B-scale due to duty rigs,
and we will miss out on promotions to higher seats. Of course, after SOC, the
former Delta pilots can bid on all the non-fenced seats of the former NWA
pilots that will come open as a result of the increased staffing required by
the new Delta pilot working agreement. Delta ALPA is content with their
position, which again aligns itself with management against the former NWA
pilots.

All three of these issues are in conflict with the former Delta pilots'
parochial interests. We do not want to take control of issues that pertain
exclusively to the former Delta pilots because that would be inappropriate,
and we certainly feel that it is inappropriate for them to control the issues
that affect only us. This conflict of interest is egregious and it MUST BE
remedied prior to the melding of the MECs. Any airline union would want
nothing less. Does not the concept of "duty of fair representation" come to
mind?

4. Throughout this merger process it is apparent that ALPA National has
chosen to side with the former Delta pilots possibly because of their size.
Note, for example, the signing of Letter 19 by Captain Prater leaving it up
to the former NWA pilots to manufacture leverage to avoid an inferior
three-year contract when contrasted with the former Delta pilots. Look also
at the ruling of the Executive Council in defining initial implementation of the
seniority list in a way that hinders the former NWA pilots from having an
effective voice at "the table" for those issues exclusively their own.

It seems that ALAP National will allow a larger pilot group to steamroll a
smaller group. The pilots of any ALPA carrier should take note of what has
happened to us if they believe there is a possibility that they too could be
involved in a merger? Is it not elementary that each member of ALPA needs
to be treated with genuine concern and not empty rhetoric?

One notes the decertification of the four ALPA carriers involved in their
two mergers. The continual trampling on a minority, particularly a minority of
significant size, not only makes a mockery of a union, it leads to
ruination of that union.

5. Captain Moak and Delta ALPA have had a spotty record so far in "team
building" with us. Their actions have not matched their rhetoric of
brotherhood.

Putting everything that has happened in the past behind us, which is
essential for our mutual success, is possible only if their actions
recognize our value to our union and our corporation. Taking the control of our
specific issues (listed above as 3.a.b.c) from us this month is not
conducive to the success of this body. The fact that Delta ALPA refuses to support what
we, or any union, would require in this circumstance is not only
shortsighted, it is a critical misjudgment that could be avoided.

Furthermore, Captain Moak and Delta ALPA have given no signal that they are
interested in sharing any actual power in the governance of the 12,000-plus
pilots. They barely outnumber us (13 voters to 12 voters) on the new DAL
MEC, and they apparently want all the committee chairs as well as effective
control of the committees themselves. They want to control the MEC officer
billets of importance as well. Oh, to be sure, we will have some token
positions to make it "look better." Sounds just like the Karl Rove plan of
the rule of our country by 51 percent that we have seen for the better part of
this decade. How did that work out for our United States of America? After
eight long years and a lot of damage, even some hard-core Republicans wanted
to go in a very different direction. Let's do this right so that we can be
the effective union that we are capable of being for the benefit of our
entire membership and truly set the gold standard for the entire
international association!

6. The NWA MEC meets next Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday to discuss
strategy. We have a problem with some of the members of our own MEC with
regard to their responsibilities, and they are directly undermining the effort of
the NWA MEC to represent and advocate for you in the issues listed above.
For instance, DTW Secretary-Treasurer Thomas Tucker divulged some of our
MEC's confidential strategy session in an update to the DTW pilots. The
outgoing MSP FO rep, Jon Lewis, has e-mailed the DAL MEC his nonsupport of
the NWA MEC's position. Jon Lewis HAS VOTED IN FAVOR of our strategy! He even
voted in favor of filing the grievance over the trip/duty rig problem! We
only found out Jon's disagreement with us was when he e-mailed ONLY THE DAL MEC
and EVP Ray Miller and gave them the Council 1 update, voicing his
disagreement with Council 1 chairman's perspective on the update! But EVP
Miller responded to BOTH the NWA and DAL MEC to rebut the Council 1 chairman's
update that had pointed out Captain Miller's vote against NWA pilot issues.

The NWA EVP, Ray Miller, advocated against the NWA MEC's position at the
last Executive Council meeting. During a question at the October election of
the EVP, Captain Miller stated that he does not like the NWA MEC officer
leadership and has a poor working relationship with many members of the MEC.
He also stated that he could not wait to see the MECs merged!"

Is it possible that these individuals are undermining us to curry favor with
Delta ALPA?

7. Captain Moak and the Delta MECSince your MEC officers have been
dealing with Captain Moak and the Delta MEC, we have consistently told you
that actions speak louder than words. At the arbitration hearings, the Delta
team told the arbitrators the economic windfall that the former NWA pilots
were getting with the new contract.

What the arbitrators and some of you are not aware of is the fact that there
was a better contract tentatively agreed too if Captain Moak and the Delta
MEC would have agreed to binding arbitration in the event that a negotiated
seniority list could not be achieved. They chose not to and gave up money
for everyone as that TA subsequently dropped dead!

Captain Moak and the Delta MEC then moved forward without the NWA pilots and
signed Letter 19 at less money for themselves and LOWERED the pay rates on
the A330, an aircraft that their own pilots would someday fly! Is not the
purpose of a union, along with safety, to enhance the pay and working
conditions of its members both current and future?

In 2002, after 9/11, and in a tough economic environment, NWA management
(under Richard Anderson) and NWA ALPA agreed to a two-year contract
extension
that included 10.25% more pay by the end. In 2008, Captain Moak and the
Delta MEC agreed to a contract that was four years long, with pay raises of
5%,
4%, 4%, and 4%, and increases in the DC of 1%, 1%, and 1%. Equity was also
achieved. To make this merger go forward, Delta management needed scope
relief from Captain Moak and the Delta MEC. This was significant leverage
that Captain Moak and the Delta MEC had! After a 40% pay cut in Chapter 11,
was the 5% raise and equity good enough? By truly working with Captain
Stevens and the NWA MEC, could we have achieved more? We knew we had a 7%
initial
raise on 1/1/09. What could we have achieved by working together? 9%, 10%
12%? We will never know.

Finally, we ask by disenfranchising a large group of pilots, how does the
new Delta MEC that ALPA National and Captain Moak with the old Delta
MEC are in such a frantic rush to formhave a snowball's chance in
hell to succeed? Is the foundation sound or is it faulty? It might look good
on day 2, but how will it hold up in the time to come?

We will begin to know on January 17, 2009, how the foundation is
constructed!

Fraternally and in unity,

Jim Stuart, Chairman














So, ahhhhh, is this your example of integrity and professionalism. This should embarass all of us (fraternally and in unity!!)

Originally Posted by Raging white (Post 532412)

I mentioned nothing about integrity in the letter. Did you read what I wrote? I was talking about PG saying our entire group lacked integrity. I said I agreed that the letter was a bit extreme but it can be cosidered childish or passionate.

I could have and should have been presented better IMHO

Originally Posted by Superpilot92 (Post 532226)

the question is why is dalpa not doing everything it can to fight for what is right for it's new members? Why does it have to take an uprising to bring things to attention?

For instance, A grievance is getting filed on behalf of all fnwa pilots whom hasn't reached the 12 year cap yet because mgmt is telling us that our longevity increases will stay under the old Nwa way but probation, dpma,etc will be followed per the contract. That is bs! That equates to several thousand dollars per pilot. There is alot of this crap being pulled and dalapa isn't doing anything to help correct it for it's newest members Aka fnwapilots. This our union leaders are busting a to work on the several hundred grievances. Mgmt is picking and choosing what they want to move forward with in the implimentation of the contract for us fnwa pilots and dalapa seems to be unconcerned about it's members getting bent thus why our Mec members want to handle our grievances.

Originally Posted by Superpilot92 (Post 532226)

What do you guys feel is right? Is it ok that mgmt is picking and choosing on what they want to comply with and when?

Originally Posted by Raging white (Post 532475)

OK, do you not agree that integrity includes not misrepresenting another's words or motivations? There is NOTHING in that letter that is helpful or productive in moving forward. That lack of intellectual honesty, and purposely misrepresenting the facts is clearly not the example of integrity we need. Read it again, and put yourself in the FDAL's bro's shoes. It's very disappointing, and again, I hope it isn't the feeling of the FNWA pilots on the line.

Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot (Post 532453)

"
When I get displaced to the DC-9 in MSP or DTW, is this the kind of reception and attitude I'm going to get from NWA guys?

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 532533)

Let me start with a simple question, Super. What was your October 2008 paycheck, and what was your December 2008 paycheck? Ask a DAL guy that same question and his answer will be the two numbers are the same...

Tell me again why you think you're "getting bent?"

If the NWA position on duty rigs had merit, the Delta negotiating committee would be on board. They're not. What's that tell you? I note that in your rant you don't mention anything about taking away time and a half for over 80 hours (current NWA book). You want that too?

I'll remind you that when it came to paying your sick leave, the DAL guys were in agreement and helped you get that fixed. That's the one where you used to get 75% pay for your second sick call. Want that back?



Is it ok for NWALPA to pick and choose what parts of the contract to comply with on which they agreed? Is it ok for your reps in 54 and 54 to put out communications that misrepresent where our ONE pilot group is today, communications that are in stark contrast to those from Council 20, your EVP, and Council 1?

Maybe you ought to go back and review the record one more time. Examine the facts with 20-20 hindsight and see if various communications reflect the reality of what we've all gone through. I'll point you back to the vitriol spewed after LOA 19 (was it leverage against the NWA pilots or did you get the same thing and more), the testimony of your merger representatives, and the testimony of your MEC chair...

I've looked at all that stuff and it's pretty clear to me that Captains Stevens, Stuart and Grimes don't live in the same world that I do. Their world isn't supported by the facts or the record of the last year. Of course, Captain Stevens couldn't even remember how many of his pilots NWA was going to furlough...right....and you want him to remember exactly what he agreed to in negotiations?

A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth....

Now I await the educated response of Carl and the capn. It'll make for fun revisionist reading...;)

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 532533)

What was your October 2008 paycheck, and what was your December 2008 paycheck? Ask a DAL guy that same question and his answer will be the two numbers are the same...

Stop with this old fight. It was not your money to give and we got it for ourselves by choosing to merge with Delta.

If the NWA position on duty rigs had merit, the Delta negotiating committee would be on board. They're not. What's that tell you?

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 532523)

Thank you for the kind words.
Fact is that this Delta Surplus bid is just the opening salvo. NWA will have one next. Then depending on the economy and progress of SOC, it is anyone's guess.
Get ready for a few years of looking for the new crew lounge in each new city you will be base in. Think of it as an adventure.
Remember that as of today no one has lost their source of income at the combined carrier. ASA just announced 80 furloughs effective Feb 9th. Those guys are on the street, with a very slim chance of finding a job.
Perspective. If you do not have it, get it. It makes life a lot more fun to live.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 532623)

Best of luck to you and your wife. Bringing a life in to the world will keep all of this chatter in perspective.
I hope you got the big brother t-shirt!

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 532637)

That is until he arrives, and take Momma's attention.

How much time off are you taking??

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 532640)

WOW, real money and you will be in Y2 pay correct??

Originally Posted by Superpilot92 (Post 532556)

Is it worthy of a grievance? If you were going to miss out on a couple thousand dollars would it be an issue for you?

Originally Posted by Superpilot92 (Post 532541)

I agree and never was I condoning the letter I was discussing some issues the letter spoke of.

Win that said I will answer the last part of your post, expect no I'll will by the Nwa line pilots. I assure you the majority of the Nwa pilot group is made up of good dudes and dudettes ;)

Take care

Originally Posted by Raging white (Post 532412)

I mentioned nothing about integrity in the letter. Did you read what I wrote? I was talking about PG saying our entire group lacked integrity. I said I agreed that the letter was a bit extreme but it can be considered childish or passionate.

I could have and should have been presented better IMHO

Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 532188)

Perhaps. But I can't think of too many who could claim with a straight face that NWA's contract was superior to ours pre-merger. In fact you all are angry because of a delay in receiving the more favorable work rules that we had all along!

Originally Posted by Deez340 (Post 532282)

I'm floored something like this went out to the membership! Is this normal for NALPA? Are you guys used to reading this kind of snarky, childish, divisive self-serving crap from your leadership?!

When I think of correspondence I like to receive from the people I've chosen to represent me I prefer truthful, well though out, logical communications that sound like they were written by an adult not a petulant teenager.

What's sad is there may be some legitimate issues buried in that diatribe but it will be written off as a divisive drivel. Perhaps rightfully so.

Is this guy running for something? This seems like a cheap political attack add filled with half-truths, innuendo and yes hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 532349)

I think you're right. They'll finally be dealing with a group with some INTEGRITY!

Good day.

PG

Originally Posted by BlaineFaban (Post 532351)

Perhaps their attitude toward you was a reflection of your continual antagonism toward them and within yourselves.

Originally Posted by BlaineFaban (Post 532351)

For a couple of years now, we have been no-kidding for real trying to change labor relations at Delta toward a kinder relationship. Overall, we have adopted a trust but verify strategy, and it seems to be working.

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 532533)

Let me start with a simple question, Super. What was your October 2008 paycheck, and what was your December 2008 paycheck? Ask a DAL guy that same question and his answer will be the two numbers are the same...

Tell me again why you think you're "getting bent?"

If the NWA position on duty rigs had merit, the Delta negotiating committee would be on board. They're not. What's that tell you? I note that in your rant you don't mention anything about taking away time and a half for over 80 hours (current NWA book). You want that too?

I'll remind you that when it came to paying your sick leave, the DAL guys were in agreement and helped you get that fixed. That's the one where you used to get 75% pay for your second sick call. Want that back?



Is it ok for NWALPA to pick and choose what parts of the contract to comply with on which they agreed? Is it ok for your reps in 54 and 54 to put out communications that misrepresent where our ONE pilot group is today, communications that are in stark contrast to those from Council 20, your EVP, and Council 1?

Maybe you ought to go back and review the record one more time. Examine the facts with 20-20 hindsight and see if various communications reflect the reality of what we've all gone through. I'll point you back to the vitriol spewed after LOA 19 (was it leverage against the NWA pilots or did you get the same thing and more), the testimony of your merger representatives, and the testimony of your MEC chair...

I've looked at all that stuff and it's pretty clear to me that Captains Stevens, Stuart and Grimes don't live in the same world that I do. Their world isn't supported by the facts or the record of the last year. Of course, Captain Stevens couldn't even remember how many of his pilots NWA was going to furlough...right....and you want him to remember exactly what he agreed to in negotiations?

A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth....

Now I await the educated response of Carl and the capn. It'll make for fun revisionist reading...;)

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 533109)

When it comes to hyperbole, nobody beats you dude.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 533112)

To you, INTEGRITY apparently means "you had me at hello".

Again, our old NWA managers are going to really appreciate your integrity.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 533117)

You're speaking out of historical ignorance. Read the latest issue of ALPA magazine regarding the battles we fought against a management team that put destroying labor ahead of running the business. Anyone with ANY knowledge knows that our group fought painful battles to keep the job from being destroyed. Until you vote YES for a strike, then have your wife cry when you come home from picket duty because she's so afraid, you know nothing.



We were developing the same relationship when Anderson was our CEO. When he left, so did the relationship.

This is simply a contract dispute. Somebody will win, and somebody will lose. It's just disappointing to see a few DAL pilots here that seem to hope that we lose. You feel that way because somebody in NWALPA said that DAPLA was not helping. In the world of the Kool-Aid drinkers, this is Mortal Sin!!

Carl

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 532031)

There are lots of DAL captains that were "leapfrogged."