Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-15-2013, 03:51 PM
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From the guys delivering the 90s say the JAL birds are immaculate.
standby for Bar to say immaculate is a relative term in 3.. 2......
standby for Bar to say immaculate is a relative term in 3.. 2......
01-15-2013, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NuGuy
How many of these "new" captain positions will be filled simply by people returning to captain positions they were displaced from in the last few years?
It represents about 500 more than we would have had without the 717s
I don't know if we can call this "advancement" any more than we can call the pay rate change that occured Jan 1st a "raise".
Call it what you will, but at the end of the day it looks like about $1B in contract improvements through the life of the contract over the JCBA (yes that includes the minimal gives) and about 1,000 more Delta pilots flying Delta passengers.
A very small step towards restoration, is what I'd call it.
Very small.
I'm sure the usual crowd will chime in and call it "the new normal".
Nu
It represents about 500 more than we would have had without the 717s
I don't know if we can call this "advancement" any more than we can call the pay rate change that occured Jan 1st a "raise".
Call it what you will, but at the end of the day it looks like about $1B in contract improvements through the life of the contract over the JCBA (yes that includes the minimal gives) and about 1,000 more Delta pilots flying Delta passengers.
A very small step towards restoration, is what I'd call it.
Very small.
I'm sure the usual crowd will chime in and call it "the new normal".
Nu
01-15-2013, 04:07 PM
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Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,923
Originally Posted by JungleBus
Heh...Lee Moak is, first of all, 100% in favor of cheap regional feed as a means of subsidizing mainline pay. The man told me himself. Second of all, he's on record floating flow agreements with regionals as a means of making sure the supposed pilot shortage doesn't hurt the airlines too much.
If Lee Moak was a trade unionist there is no way he would sign that contract. Lee Moak is many things but a trade unionist is not one of them.
If Lee Moak was a trade unionist there is no way he would sign that contract. Lee Moak is many things but a trade unionist is not one of them.
I don't know - scrapping the degree requirement sure looks like another step on the path from a "Professional" to more of a "skilled labor" type of career.
I guess the next logical step would be to replace our "Association" with a true "Union." Maybe the DPA should try the DPU. 
Scoop
01-15-2013, 04:18 PM
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If we're not hiring, how are we getting 500 more A slots? Are we just that overstaffed with Bs?
I mean the 717 is the lowest on the totem poll pay wise which means it would not be an advancement for a current A pilot in the traditional sense. So if the 717 A slots are advancements then it will be because FOs are moving to the Captain seats, but who replaces those FOs if we're not hiring? Are we 500 over staffed?
I'm still convinced the 717 will be filled mostly with displacements. I guess we'll find out soon.
I mean the 717 is the lowest on the totem poll pay wise which means it would not be an advancement for a current A pilot in the traditional sense. So if the 717 A slots are advancements then it will be because FOs are moving to the Captain seats, but who replaces those FOs if we're not hiring? Are we 500 over staffed?
I'm still convinced the 717 will be filled mostly with displacements. I guess we'll find out soon.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 01-15-2013 at 04:31 PM. Reason: got rid of the "not" in the last sentence.
01-15-2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by scambo1
Do youz peeple where thum ringz?
Baja.
01-15-2013, 04:31 PM
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Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 437
Originally Posted by sailingfun
It also appears the company will not ask for any contractual changes for the new rules and will operate under the current contract.
Originally Posted by index
Who's your source?
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Call your reps and crew planning.
01-15-2013, 04:33 PM
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Well, with the ratification of a concessionary TA between Delta management and non-Delta pilots, this is certainly a historic day. It's put me in a reminiscing mood. Let's take a little trip down memory lane, shall we?... posted by yours truly on April 28, 2012, before the TA came out.
For this and similar posts I was told to "shut up and color," told to get off "your" forum, held up as an example of the flowsthroughs' supposed entitlement mentality, and issued veiled threats about not making it off probation by the ALPAoids here. I was told my above prediction could not happen, that Delta had no way of cancelling Pinnacle's contract in bankruptcy, and that DL had no interest in acquiring another regional. And yet it came to pass almost exactly as I predicted.
Oh wait - no, I didn't predict that Delta management would be bribing regional pilots with Delta Pilot Jobs in exchange for concessions that set a new low for replacement jet compensation. That part surprised me as much as it surprised you.
The really sad part is that Delta pilots are in even less of a position to do anything about it than they were in April 2012. DPA was a threat then, it's dead now. ALPA National feels invincible, at least in terms of keeping the dues dollars flowing. There are a few smart guys, Bucking Bar foremost among them, who are properly concerned and see the significance of today's events. But there are fewer vocal, concerned pilots here than were were in April 2012 when DALPA started priming their membership for this day. And nary a peep out of your elected reps.
Originally Posted by JungleBus on 4/28/2012
Sheesh, I get off APC for half a day, come back, and find out that DALPA is prepping the troops for yet another scope sale!?
Nawww, that can't be right. ALPA's not that stupid...right? I heard Lee Moak (PBUH) say with his own mouth "We're done giving away scope." He wouldn't have...lied...would he?
Oh, what's that, DALPA? It's not a scope sale? You're just giving them a few more 76 seaters and in exchange they'll park a WHOLE BUNCH of 50 seaters, and double-digit pay raises to boot?
YGTBFKM. ALPA's done some really silly sh!t in their day, but this would take the cake. DAL is parking those 50 seaters whether you ask them to or not. They don't want those airplanes and have gone to great lengths to get rid of them. They moved Mesa to JFK, terminated the contract for performance, and battled them in court just to rid themselves of 31 ERJ-145s. That was planned years in advance. They've continuously dismantled a wholly owned carrier they paid $2B for, even though doing so destroyed their investment, made the remaining flying more expensive, and made the airline impossible to sell. That's how badly they wanted to get rid of those 50 seaters. And by sheer coincidence, I'm sure, within the last month they've acquired control of a regional airline holding company that flies 162 CRJ-200s for Delta. Do you really think Pinnacle is going to emerge from bankruptcy with that contract intact!? When T.O'M. says this opportunity is fleeting, he isn't kidding. DAL has to get you guys to bite on this before they announce Pinnacle and Mesaba are terminating their CRJ-200 contracts in exchange for the additional CRJ-900s! They can't keep that cat in the bag for long!
Here's what really worries me. I'm an outsider that only half pays attention and I can see clear through this gambit. ALPA sure as heck is not falling for this out of ignorance. They know exactly what they, and DAL, are doing. They are willfully giving up more DC9 replacements, and they're doing it for a quick payraise to placate the senior guys. History is repeating itself. ALPA is selling out its young.
Nawww, that can't be right. ALPA's not that stupid...right? I heard Lee Moak (PBUH) say with his own mouth "We're done giving away scope." He wouldn't have...lied...would he?
Oh, what's that, DALPA? It's not a scope sale? You're just giving them a few more 76 seaters and in exchange they'll park a WHOLE BUNCH of 50 seaters, and double-digit pay raises to boot?
YGTBFKM. ALPA's done some really silly sh!t in their day, but this would take the cake. DAL is parking those 50 seaters whether you ask them to or not. They don't want those airplanes and have gone to great lengths to get rid of them. They moved Mesa to JFK, terminated the contract for performance, and battled them in court just to rid themselves of 31 ERJ-145s. That was planned years in advance. They've continuously dismantled a wholly owned carrier they paid $2B for, even though doing so destroyed their investment, made the remaining flying more expensive, and made the airline impossible to sell. That's how badly they wanted to get rid of those 50 seaters. And by sheer coincidence, I'm sure, within the last month they've acquired control of a regional airline holding company that flies 162 CRJ-200s for Delta. Do you really think Pinnacle is going to emerge from bankruptcy with that contract intact!? When T.O'M. says this opportunity is fleeting, he isn't kidding. DAL has to get you guys to bite on this before they announce Pinnacle and Mesaba are terminating their CRJ-200 contracts in exchange for the additional CRJ-900s! They can't keep that cat in the bag for long!
Here's what really worries me. I'm an outsider that only half pays attention and I can see clear through this gambit. ALPA sure as heck is not falling for this out of ignorance. They know exactly what they, and DAL, are doing. They are willfully giving up more DC9 replacements, and they're doing it for a quick payraise to placate the senior guys. History is repeating itself. ALPA is selling out its young.
Oh wait - no, I didn't predict that Delta management would be bribing regional pilots with Delta Pilot Jobs in exchange for concessions that set a new low for replacement jet compensation. That part surprised me as much as it surprised you.
The really sad part is that Delta pilots are in even less of a position to do anything about it than they were in April 2012. DPA was a threat then, it's dead now. ALPA National feels invincible, at least in terms of keeping the dues dollars flowing. There are a few smart guys, Bucking Bar foremost among them, who are properly concerned and see the significance of today's events. But there are fewer vocal, concerned pilots here than were were in April 2012 when DALPA started priming their membership for this day. And nary a peep out of your elected reps.
01-15-2013, 05:15 PM
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Posts: 23,286
A pic for your post Jungle:
Now let me be honest, I hope DALPA does actually do something. I have my fingers crossed on behalf of some of the new folks.
Now let me be honest, I hope DALPA does actually do something. I have my fingers crossed on behalf of some of the new folks.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 01-15-2013 at 05:19 PM. Reason: changed picture
01-15-2013, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
A pic for your post Jungle:
Now let me be honest, I hope DALPA does actually do something. I have my fingers crossed on behalf of some of the new folks.
Now let me be honest, I hope DALPA does actually do something. I have my fingers crossed on behalf of some of the new folks.
01-15-2013, 05:55 PM
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Posts: 1,898
ANA just grounded all 17 of their Dreamliners...
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