I really did say it! This month was our bid period 5. I am now a Delta pilot. Now THAT should leave you speechless. ;)

Carl

ACL How many MD-90's does JAL have?

How does ALPA have input on F/A actions? And what about the pilots? Did ALPA want them to cross too?

... Look, I don't have the background on the AMFA strike, and maybe a lot of it will make sense as I discover more. For now, it will suffice to say that we each have our approach, and our F/A's have their approach. You may have backed up yours in a way that was quite honorable and logical, and we've probably done the same. Right now, seems that the South F/A's voted down AFA, and it seems that we are, at a minimum, supportive of their wishes.

As we work together, maybe we'll understand each other better. And maybe the consensus will be among F/A's that they want a union, in which case: more power to them. For right now, I wouldn't inpugn the motive of either pilot group for how they are or aren't helping or respecting the F/A's by interfering in their affairs.

So I suggest we don't have a big debate about who is rightly supporting what, and we wait to get these groups on one page to figure out what they want, and what we want. In the meantime, Nu's question is not framed correctly. This has nothing to do with respect or trade unionism, and everything to do with the context in which different parts our "family" operated under before.

Afetr Nu and I get to sepnd some time with F/A's from the opposite pre-merger group, maybe this discussion can take place again, with better information on both sides.

Do you think we ended up in that position by accident?

Outstanding point. Except I wasn't solely talking about DAL pilots who remain neutral for the AFA efforts to organize. In fact, the main point that I was making about our pilots and the AFA was that there are some who are lobbying FA's to vote no, which is hardly neutral.

In response to Bar, my post really asks why there seems to be an increasing amout of pilots who don't respect the unions (already on property, at any company, in any industry) or their members. Look on our message board and see how our pilots talk about UAW workers. I sense there is an increasing anti-(non pilot)union sentiment among pilots.

My post had nothing to do with stopping people from doing what they want if and how they want. It has everything to do with our attitude toward other unions and their members.

New K Now

The have 16 Md's 90's of which 16 are owned outright.

No I do not. I think you knew the answer to how I thought about this question before you asked it.

It is also why it is a fools errand to push negotiations out for half a decade. 2012 is OK but an election year.

Well that's not enough!;)

Guys there are ways to get new airplanes. Deals can be made to return existing ones for new ones. Just wait.

Agreed. But here's the $64,000 question come 2012. Do we try to get 80% of what we think is "fair", realizing it will take 3+ years of extended contract negotiations to get that. Or do we settle for 70% and wrap it up in a year, but be labeled as caving again?:confused:

And before anybody says I'm caving to accept 70-80%, realize that 70% to us is 100% to the company, and 80% is 110%. We will never agree on what's "fair". We will point to C2K plus inflation; the company will point to industry standard. My bet is we'll end up at the top of the industry, but below C2K + inflation.