Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-26-2014, 01:49 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
Crazy rumor from another board...this should generate some fun. I don't believe it for a minute, but I know the contract extension is one of RAs favorite tools..,here goes...
The Company would like to extend our contract 2 years. And for this 2-year extension, they are willing to offer us a 10% pay increase in Year 1, and another 10% increase in Year 2.
However, no one should believe that the Company is willing to do this out of any altruism towards us. We are already at, or very near to the highest paid pilots in the industry, so why would they put us further in front of our colleagues at our competitors?
The reason is: Parker won't be able to keep his pilot pay at 60% of ours forever. American has a "Pay Parity" mechanism with UAL and DL approaching in 2016 (according to APC). And given that we're making tons of money now, Delta can afford to pay us that extra money, but when our payrates translate into the AAG payrates, AAG will be financially stressed.
Anderson is playing three-dimensional chess.
The Company would like to extend our contract 2 years. And for this 2-year extension, they are willing to offer us a 10% pay increase in Year 1, and another 10% increase in Year 2.
However, no one should believe that the Company is willing to do this out of any altruism towards us. We are already at, or very near to the highest paid pilots in the industry, so why would they put us further in front of our colleagues at our competitors?
The reason is: Parker won't be able to keep his pilot pay at 60% of ours forever. American has a "Pay Parity" mechanism with UAL and DL approaching in 2016 (according to APC). And given that we're making tons of money now, Delta can afford to pay us that extra money, but when our payrates translate into the AAG payrates, AAG will be financially stressed.
Anderson is playing three-dimensional chess.
Don't send 80, he only plays 3 dimensional chest.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I asked a rep if we have had any talk of a contract extension. He stated no such discussions are happening. I can see RA thinking this was a good idea but I would imagine he would wait until closer to the pay reset dates. A 20 percent raise to the pilots would also require a significant raise for the non contracts to prevent a mutiny and the end of our current excellent operational status. It may happen but I bet he wants 3 years and offers 4 percent a year max.
But I love it. $160K for a 717 FO?!?
But 20% for just two years? Well, let me just enjoy the contact high.
(fwiw, I don't think 4,4,4 would pass without a front end enticement)
04-26-2014, 02:02 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,367
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
AAG's (US and AA) pay rates pass us in 2016. They now make only a few bucks less than us. The disparity ended with the merger approval in December.
04-26-2014, 02:06 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by sailingfun
result of the parity review.
04-26-2014, 02:16 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
Heaven forbid they do some heavy lifting raise the bar.
04-26-2014, 02:47 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I'm sure some of you are thinking of bidding the 717. Here's my thoughts: Huntsville, Knoxville, Jackson, Northwest Arkansas Regional Airport and stare at this for a minute...
04-26-2014, 02:52 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
Thanks for the backup sink!
To clarify.... I never said I make less now. If I did, or if that was your perception, allow me to correct it now:
I did make more in 2013 than in 2012.
My point was that, especially when on reserve, I work more for the extra money, and I MUST work more. Manning is tighter due to C12 concessions, making it harder (impossible during summer and most weekends) to drop trips and reserve days (my heavily utilized method of improving QOL). For me, the extra days of work are not worth the marginally higher pay. Not by a damn sight.
What the DALPA regulars here refuse to acknowledge in my criticism of their C12 defensive perimeter is that my QOL and amount of time with my family has diminished. I'm not the only one. And QOL/time with the fam is far more important to me than a few extra bucks.
To clarify.... I never said I make less now. If I did, or if that was your perception, allow me to correct it now:
I did make more in 2013 than in 2012.
My point was that, especially when on reserve, I work more for the extra money, and I MUST work more. Manning is tighter due to C12 concessions, making it harder (impossible during summer and most weekends) to drop trips and reserve days (my heavily utilized method of improving QOL). For me, the extra days of work are not worth the marginally higher pay. Not by a damn sight.
What the DALPA regulars here refuse to acknowledge in my criticism of their C12 defensive perimeter is that my QOL and amount of time with my family has diminished. I'm not the only one. And QOL/time with the fam is far more important to me than a few extra bucks.
Another question for you though. Are you reserve? The number of days of being on call has not changed. so how could you be working more? Are you pizzed that the company has gotten more efficient with reserve assignments? Well boo hoo. It was great when reserves went really really senior, but then guys like you whine because they say that senior guys bidding reserve are getting paid more for doing nothing and meanwhile the junior lineholders are working their buttocks off.... You want cake and the ability to consume it as well....
You are ever so predictable, but keep it coming, it is truly fun.
04-26-2014, 02:56 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
Heaven forbid they do some heavy lifting raise the bar.
When DAL was already 20-40% ahead of all the legacies and we still got 19.7%+ in a 3 year deal means the Delta pilots will have to pattern off themselves AGAIN. Doesn't create nearly the leverage we want.
I do see RA using the AMR reset to lever up their costs and make the UCAL pilots even more disgruntled as they will still be stuck for two more years (plus time in Sect. 6). It isn't 10%/yr. I've spoken with some reps and they say no talks have occurred or offers made. I do think this next PWA will be weighted towards rates and light on other sections, mostly to drive up areas where AMR costs will also rise. I could be completely wrong, as my wife likes to point out on a regular basis.
04-26-2014, 02:57 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
By internalizing your unbiased talking points, I see now that C12 was a magnificent accomplishment...
Whenever I see the term "talking points", it reminds me of the bad old days when a certain organization was (failing at) organizing the group, and their default argument when they couldn't come up with something coherent was to accuse others of orally gang-raping them.
The genesis of this thing is that you essentially opined that we're making less under C2012. Which is obviously wrong, and everyone on here is telling you so, not just the people you accuse of oralling you, but just about everyone else.
You are wrong on this. It's OK: I'm wrong much of the time, and many of us on APC suffer from the same affliction. The key is to concede your mistakes, and not get all stubborn and accusatory when you back yourself into a corner.
04-26-2014, 03:11 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Captain Jack
Posts: 1,003
Big pay rate raises for the next contract will eat a huge amount of the effort. It will be scrutinized heavily by everyone. They love to put up our pay scales to everyone else on the big boards. Details are the key for a big check increase without more work. Like a "look forward" min day ....5:15? with 117 it will pay us on those 30 hr away from home layovers. Also when we have big days they won't get averaged away with a look back 4:30 like we have now. JMO
04-26-2014, 03:13 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by Sink r8
The genesis of this thing is that you essentially opined that we're making less under C2012.
It feels much better to be comfortably numb. It's much easier this way. I urge everyone to just relax and let it happen. No need to fight for every penny, every second off, every QOL gain.
RA and the boys need the money more than we do. Just take what you're given, and like it!
i love my new life!
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