Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-26-2014 | 11:35 AM
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04-26-2014 | 11:37 AM
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From: DAL 330
While I disagree with Mesabah and JB's sentiment that we are equals, you got furloughed and your flying was allowed to be replaced by other pilots due to lack of mainline scope. That and that alone was the reason. The blood is on our hands for your furlough, not theirs. It's long past time for you come to terms with that fact.
Possibly, but another way to put it was that we had a No Furlough clause and other protections but the company FM'd us anyway.
Scoop
04-26-2014 | 11:37 AM
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04-26-2014 | 11:46 AM
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Junglebus..you're gonna have a lot of very long 4-days in the right seat of a 88 if you insist on pressing this position.
I guess you just don't get it. And unless you get furloughed from DL and replaced by a 9E guys wearing your uniform, flying planes painted in your colors carrying your pax who bought a ticket on your airline to mainline destnations that you used to fly to...you never will.
As far as I'm concerned, DL should never have bailed 9E out of BK. They could have merged with any other rat-jet operator to undercut the next group, or just liquidated. Then those big, shiny new RJ's could just come on over to mainline where they belonged in the first place.
And before you jump all over me with the " how can advocate all those poor rj pilots and their families being kicked to the street"..remember that's exactly what happened to 1310 DL mainline families..many who stayed out longer cause there were plenty of rj pilots more than willing to replace them and pretend to be something they weren't.
Now, you want us to just accept that 9E guys really are DL pilots just because at the end of mgmt's shell game they happened to come up with a paycheck that says DL on it?! GMAB
Once again...all the 9E pilots can take the 6000 hrs of TPIC to any legacy they want. They've got better quals and are in a better position to get hired than any of us were back in the hiring boom of 99. Hopefully they saved some cash while they made a 100k as rj captain non-reving to Paris on mainline. They've got it pretty good.
Just don't come complaining about how you had to actually go thru an interview to actually become a DL pilot. Yes, I know CZ and Mesaba flows get jobs without having a college degree or interview. They got the golden ticket. Lifes a b!tch,do your best with the cards you're dealt.
I guess you just don't get it. And unless you get furloughed from DL and replaced by a 9E guys wearing your uniform, flying planes painted in your colors carrying your pax who bought a ticket on your airline to mainline destnations that you used to fly to...you never will.
As far as I'm concerned, DL should never have bailed 9E out of BK. They could have merged with any other rat-jet operator to undercut the next group, or just liquidated. Then those big, shiny new RJ's could just come on over to mainline where they belonged in the first place.
And before you jump all over me with the " how can advocate all those poor rj pilots and their families being kicked to the street"..remember that's exactly what happened to 1310 DL mainline families..many who stayed out longer cause there were plenty of rj pilots more than willing to replace them and pretend to be something they weren't.
Now, you want us to just accept that 9E guys really are DL pilots just because at the end of mgmt's shell game they happened to come up with a paycheck that says DL on it?! GMAB
Once again...all the 9E pilots can take the 6000 hrs of TPIC to any legacy they want. They've got better quals and are in a better position to get hired than any of us were back in the hiring boom of 99. Hopefully they saved some cash while they made a 100k as rj captain non-reving to Paris on mainline. They've got it pretty good.
Just don't come complaining about how you had to actually go thru an interview to actually become a DL pilot. Yes, I know CZ and Mesaba flows get jobs without having a college degree or interview. They got the golden ticket. Lifes a b!tch,do your best with the cards you're dealt.
If, God forbid, you get furloughed again, you will have the option to come over to Endeavor, without giving up your number.
04-26-2014 | 12:00 PM
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CG, I understand what happened to you, but keep in mind we are not Comair. The NWAirlink carriers had jobs waiting for the furloughs if they wanted them, in fact, my IOE was done by a NWA mainline furlough. However, most NWA mainline furloughs, when they saw how the regionals were run, walked out of class.
If, God forbid, you get furloughed again, you will have the option to come over to Endeavor, without giving up your number.
If, God forbid, you get furloughed again, you will have the option to come over to Endeavor, without giving up your number.
Did Mesaba have some type of flow-back? I don't recall that.
04-26-2014 | 12:09 PM
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From: right for a long, long time
Shiz,
My friend, you are falling for the Corporation's alter ego shell game. As labor we should want to unify Delta flying. Delta flying is yours and my flying which we permit to be done elsewhere. We should not permit the Company to run an airline within Delta, which is what Endeavor is.
It is clear that we should want to end this arrangement. It is clear that these people are in the service of the same employer that we are.
Management will resist anything that increases their costs; whether it be pilot standards, pay, or training. ALPA was founded on principle that we should have one standard of safety, we should protect pilots' seniority and longevity.
It is not jet the express pilots who should want to come to our standard, we should want them on the same standard also.
My friend, you are falling for the Corporation's alter ego shell game. As labor we should want to unify Delta flying. Delta flying is yours and my flying which we permit to be done elsewhere. We should not permit the Company to run an airline within Delta, which is what Endeavor is.
It is clear that we should want to end this arrangement. It is clear that these people are in the service of the same employer that we are.
Management will resist anything that increases their costs; whether it be pilot standards, pay, or training. ALPA was founded on principle that we should have one standard of safety, we should protect pilots' seniority and longevity.
It is not jet the express pilots who should want to come to our standard, we should want them on the same standard also.
Don't confuse desires with reality.
I do want continuous scope recapture, but I won't over-pay to fill the plate with more RJ scope than possible when there are many other things we would like from the "improvements menu".
04-26-2014 | 12:26 PM
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Thanks for the backup sink!
To clarify.... I never said I make less now. If I did, or if that was your perception, allow me to correct it now:
I did make more in 2013 than in 2012.
My point was that, especially when on reserve, I work more for the extra money, and I MUST work more. Manning is tighter due to C12 concessions, making it harder (impossible during summer and most weekends) to drop trips and reserve days (my heavily utilized method of improving QOL). For me, the extra days of work are not worth the marginally higher pay. Not by a damn sight.
What the DALPA regulars here refuse to acknowledge in my criticism of their C12 defensive perimeter is that my QOL and amount of time with my family has diminished. I'm not the only one. And QOL/time with the fam is far more important to me than a few extra bucks.
To clarify.... I never said I make less now. If I did, or if that was your perception, allow me to correct it now:
I did make more in 2013 than in 2012.
My point was that, especially when on reserve, I work more for the extra money, and I MUST work more. Manning is tighter due to C12 concessions, making it harder (impossible during summer and most weekends) to drop trips and reserve days (my heavily utilized method of improving QOL). For me, the extra days of work are not worth the marginally higher pay. Not by a damn sight.
What the DALPA regulars here refuse to acknowledge in my criticism of their C12 defensive perimeter is that my QOL and amount of time with my family has diminished. I'm not the only one. And QOL/time with the fam is far more important to me than a few extra bucks.
There have been no manning changes as a result of contract 2012. FO categories were overmanned prior to contract 2012 because of excellent no furlough provisions that forced Delta to keep a large surplus of pilots on the property. Keeping parroting your massive job loss from 2012 in spite of the facts won't make it true.
04-26-2014 | 12:38 PM
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There have been no manning changes as a result of contract 2012. FO categories were overmanned prior to contract 2012 because of excellent no furlough provisions that forced Delta to keep a large surplus of pilots on the property. Keeping parroting your massive job loss from 2012 in spite of the facts won't make it true.
04-26-2014 | 12:44 PM
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Yes, but we were late to the party. NWA was recalling by the time we got it up and running. Keep in mind, though, Mesaba was not expanding while NWA was furloughing. In fact Mesaba was furloughing at the same time as NWA. However, Pinnacle was hiring NWA street captains, Compass was too in 06-07. There is no bad blood that exists between the former NWA RJers and mainline, this is not the situation that played out at Delta, not even close. Most guys here think the RJDC is a power connector.
04-26-2014 | 12:45 PM
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From: Road construction signholder
My point was that, especially when on reserve, I work more for the extra money, and I MUST work more. Manning is tighter due to C12 concessions, making it harder (impossible during summer and most weekends) to drop trips and reserve days (my heavily utilized method of improving QOL). For me, the extra days of work are not worth the marginally higher pay.
The fact is, that if you are on reserve, compared to pre-C2012...
- reserves now get the Average Daily Guarantee of 4.30 a day; I can't tell you the number of two day trips that used to pay four hours for a reserve (two duty period minimums) that now pay nine
- in fact many of those same two-days used to pay 7.15 for a regular line holder (example dhATL-MCO, layover, MCO-ATL; it paid 2 hrs for day one and 5.15 for day two); most regular lineholders would not pickup such a trip because it just wasn't worth it at 7.15.
- guess what? You rarely see those going to reserves any more (and remember they used to just pay four hours if they did) because evidently 9 hours for such an easy 2-day is sufficient for most regular guys to pick up, sparing the reserves having to fly the trip at all--but if they did, they would get the same nine hours!
- have you had a reserve month with a week or more of vacation? with our current contract you have your own personal reserve guarantee which is quite a bit less than the posted guarantee; we didn't have that prior to this contract and that makes a big difference in quality of life
- why MUST you work more? In fact with the ADG my guess is that most reserves will work less to get to the same number of credited hours. Have you heard of "rolling thunder?" If you are in a severely undermanned category, then put in a GS on your x-days, hopefully get one awarded, get paid for the trip on top of the reserve guarantee AND get your x-days back--not bad; in fact Crew Resources badly wanted to get rid of the x-day payback during our BK negotiations--ALPA refused to discuss it, though no one even credits them with anything positive like that.
Look, no one here is Pollyanna claiming that all is perfect and how could you possibly want anything else. What we are saying is that our contract, warts and all, has a lot of good elements to it, and DALPA has done a good job of getting value for the DAL pilots, one small step at a time, for several years now.
Guys like the DPA crowd and you (though I acknowledge you are not on that train) just don't seem to want to admit to any of it.
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