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05-17-2014 | 06:49 AM

#156881

Alan Shore

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone

Please fight tooth and nail, please, pretty please. NO CDOs.

I will fight tooth and nail to avoid having to fly them myself, and I will provide appropriate input to my reps. That's about all I can do from my pool deck.

05-17-2014 | 06:52 AM

#156882

Alan Shore

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoop

I don't see a 5:15 ADG as being much of a gain. Besides the very few trips were the 4:30 ADG kicks in don't all trips already pay 5:15 per day?

What am I missing?

Trips today pay 5:15 per qualifying duty period (DPA), which excludes deadhead-only duty periods, duty periods in which all flight are cancelled, etc. We have plenty of 3-day trips with a 30-hour layover worth 14 hours or so, and a pop-up trip that flies to a layover and deadheads back might be worth only 7:15.

Also, DPA does not apply to a reserve pilot.

05-17-2014 | 06:53 AM

#156883

XtremeF150

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From: M88B

Whats our rush? I bid RSV most of the time and commute and the current situation is tolerable while they get the LOA we need. I agree with the other posters that we don't need to give up anything PERIOD.

Give and take is a TRADE! not a win. We are in a very good negotiating environment. I don't want to hear excuses about why we can't perform even in this perfect environment. Please don't rush this dang TA.

If it has concessions in it then vote it down and prove before we get to C2015 that we will in fact take a stand to anything substandard. Management is watching to see what they can slide past us.

05-17-2014 | 06:53 AM

#156884

chuck416

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Joined: Nov 2008

Posts: 588

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From: A-320/A

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

Yeah homie, you got me. I am introducing class warfare when I have no clue about his background. But if something makes a quacking sound, it probably IS a duck.

How's that DPA thing going? (quack) And btw... when is the vote?

Just catching up on a couple of days posts to see how this FAR MOU is coming along. imho, if this pilot group comes out on the short end of the stick (again), that very well may be the proverbial last straw that sends enough guys over to the dpa side. Don't get me wrong, I do not want to see a change in union representation so close to section 6 negotiations---I'd just like to see our union reps man-up, the way they did not so many years ago.
With respects

05-17-2014 | 06:58 AM

#156885

Scoop

Moderator

Joined: Dec 2007

Posts: 7,263

Likes: 105

From: DAL 330

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore

OK - The DH portion makes sense to me but my point is that the trips that don't have a duty period are already covered by the 4:30 ADG and they are a small percentage of trips.

As far as reserve pilots getting DPA I guess it affects people in different seats/bases differently. I fly mostly reserve and have been doing so for 15 years - never broke the reserve guarantee once so I don't really care what each indidviudal trip pays when I am on reserve.

I guess this would benefit the guys who are routinely flown above the guarantee, and obviously on a reserve GS this would be important.

I guess what I am saying is we already have a DPA of 5:15 so why wouldn't we be looking at 5:30, 5:45 etc?

Scoop

05-17-2014 | 07:13 AM

#156886

CheapTrick

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Joined: Jul 2012

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From: A350

This sounds like a very nice win for the DAL pilot. Several advances not requiring capital in the next contract is a very good thing. Holding the line on 3 man/4 man crew is big and tips the company's hand for the next contract. CDO's may be a good thing for some of us and a terrible thing for others... iow, more options for the line holder. ADG increase...bout time.

Mem Rat? Passes huge. (based on the items reported)

05-17-2014 | 07:15 AM

#156887

index

Wind the clock beoch

Joined: May 2012

Posts: 437

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Quote:

Originally Posted by index

Yes, the devil is always in the details. I wonder who those details are going to favor? Hmmmmmmmm???? Alan?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore

My goal is always to learn those details and to put myself into a position that they do favor me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by index

Becoming knowledgable about the contract and using its provisions to the fullest extent is different than exceptions to the rule. You can't put yourself in a position favorable to yourself when the exceptions were put in by the company to exclude you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore

Smart bidding, etc. can certainly minimize it.

Two things -- I always stay senior enough in category to avoid trips I do not wish to fly, and I do what I need to do to find the proverbial hat many times over.

I don't think you're missing the point. I think you are smarter than that. I believe you are intentionally ignoring the fact that the issue is not whether you or I or any other pilot is savvy or senior enough to avoid contractual loopholes that the company inserts in our PWA.

The issue is why do we continue to allow any loopholes in ADG, reroute pay, etc... We need to protect ALL pilots, not just the senior ones who can bid to avoid the screw job. Your opinion may differ.

05-17-2014 | 07:18 AM

#156888

DLpilot

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoop

I don't see a 5:15 ADG as being much of a gain. Besides the very few trips were the 4:30 ADG kicks in, don't all trips already pay 5:15 per day?

What am I missing?

Scoop

We have a lot of 4 day trips on the 88 with 30 hour layovers now. These are usually worth 18 to 20 hours.

05-17-2014 | 07:23 AM

#156889

OceanCrosser

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Joined: Apr 2013

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From: A350 Captain (RET)

Steven Rothmeier former NWA CEO

News regarding Steve Rothmeier. No matter what you thought of him, age 67 is much to young to die.

OC

Business

05-17-2014 | 07:31 AM

#156890

Scoop

Moderator

Joined: Dec 2007

Posts: 7,263

Likes: 105

From: DAL 330

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLpilot

We have a lot of 4 day trips on the 88 with 30 hour layovers now. These are usually worth 18 to 20 hours.

Makes sense. We have them on the 737 also, and I guess the more I think about it the more I see the value in it.

But I remain a little skeptical of possibly seeing a lot of the 30 hour layovers going away (think CDO rumor) and the credit time in trips going way down so that the value of the 5:15 gets diluted via mostly hard time trips. Thus I really would have liked to see the 5:15 bumped up to 5:30 but maybe that is not in the cards.

It seems the company stays a few moves ahead of us in these type of deals.

Scoop

Last edited by Scoop; 05-17-2014 at 07:56 AM.