Roadkill

shiznit== downvote
Ed Grimley & FTB == upvote
Pineapple Guy == upvote

We need upvote/downvote buttons activated for this version of vBulletin, amirite?

forgot to bid

Damn got caught. Made a lot of edits to my post.

80ktsClamp

To be fair, it has to be positive at this point no matter what when the company is making this much money.

I understand there will be some gives on every negotiation... I'm a big boy. That's how negotiations work.

That being said, the costing out of the gives needs to be made readily available (along with the consequences) while looking at how that balances with the gains (and the consequences of those as well).

sailing is oversimplifying things while I ftb has made some assumptions on it that shouldn't be made. We have to remember that only class 3 seats are approved for non-ocean augmentations in the LOA, so that is only turnarounds that are biz-elite equipped (perhaps even lie flat). So, ftb's math is wrong right off the bat since only a couple flights a day out of each hub (more out of NYC to the west coast) are equipped as such and could possibly be used as a turn.

It's much more complex than either poster is trying to make it, in other words.

Trust but verify would be an appropriate phrase here in regard to the MEC's actions and releases.

Did I mention MEMRAT, and we need to be given access to the language yet?

newKnow

This guy says, "Relax. There will be plenty of time to fight about stuff once we know what we have to fight about."


(I hope he's right. )

TheManager

Whoops. Let me clarify. Jen's pic. Nice work on that. The analysis is a good effort that needs tweaking.

BOTTOM LINE:

* We need the straight language of the LOA.

* We need Memrat.

newKnow

Ah ha. It's taken nearly 24 hours for me to possibly make sense of these negotiations and this resulting agreement.

So, I have to ask:

Is it possible that 117 hurt some of our pilots as much as it hurt the company? Has anyone had trouble picking up time, or anything?

forgot to bid

I edited that out. I kept hitting reload but it never reloaded so I didn't think anyone saw it yet so I kept editing. I went back to Captains snoring at the hotel for simplicity.

Say 5/20/2014

Flight 1 ATL-SFO at 8am done by Crew A
Flight 2 ATL-SFO at 10am done by Crew B
Flight 3 ATL-SFO at 11am done by Crew C
Flight 4 ATL-SFO at 3pm done by Crew D
Flight 5 ATL-SFO at 5pm done by Crew E
Flight 6 ATL-SFO at 7pm done by Crew F
Flight 7 ATL-SFO at 9pm done by Crew G

Flight 8 SFO-ATL at 6am done by Crew H
Flight 9 SFO-ATL at 8am done by Crew I
Flight 10 SFO-ATL at 9am done by Crew J
Flight 11 SFO-ATL at 12pm done by Crew K
Flight 12 SFO-ATL at 2pm done by Crew L
Flight 13 SFO-ATL at 9pm done by Crew A
Flight 14 SFO-ATL at 1130pm done by Crew B

Vs

Flight 1 ATL-SFO at 8am done by Crew E originating in ATL
Flight 2 ATL-SFO at 942am done by Crew F originating in ATL
Flight 3 ATL-SFO at 11am done by Crew D originating in ATL
Flight 4 ATL-SFO at 3pm done by Crew A
Flight 5 ATL-SFO at 5pm done by Crew B
Flight 6 ATL-SFO at 7pm done by Crew C Originating in ATL
Flight 7 ATL-SFO at 829pm done by Crew G Originating in ATL

Flight 8 SFO-ATL at 6am done by Crew A originating in SFO
Flight 9 SFO-ATL at 8am done by Crew B originating in SFO
Flight 10 SFO-ATL at 1130am done by Crew E
Flight 11 SFO-ATL at 122pm done by Crew F
Flight 12 SFO-ATL at 1430pm done by Crew D
Flight 13 SFO-ATL at 1030pm done by Crew C
Flight 14 SFO-ATL at 1159pm done by Crew G

80ktsClamp

Yep!

The big x-factor is how this will change the trip makeups. There are some major complexities with the ADG increase and CDOs. I know the whole "package" has been costed out and is an increase in pilot jobs required. What we don't know is what assumptions were used to create that.

I think we're barking up the wrong tree trying to make a big deal out of the non-ocean augments. The scope on that is sooo limited due to the rest seat requirement and will be used primarily to be able to stop the 70 or whatever hour layovers in Asia.

The elephant in the room that we're all staring at is the allowance of CDOs. That's the biggie, and that's what we as a membership should be allowed to examine and determine whether or not that is worth it and will be beneficial as a whole to the pilot group.

80ktsClamp

I've had an easier time on the domestic side! No more 30/7...

I'm tired of sorting through trips trying to find ones that pay less than 5:15 a day, though... 5:15 or better ADG was a big item for me in C2015 (and a reason for my no on C2012). If this passes, I'm sure I'll find something else to latch on to.

forgot to bid

True, the ATL-SFO has (at least today) 3 739s, 2 763s, 2 752s for 1410 seats. Weren't we hearing recently that they wanted to turn the 763ERs to domestic flying because of a lack of places to take them overseas?

Well 210 seater ER flying 7 flights per day is 1470 seats, a 4% increase in capacity. Minor increase in capacity, shunned by the WSJ, but if you can save the money elsewhere then it's more margin.