Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-25-2014, 05:37 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
08-25-2014, 05:41 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
HEIDE OBERNDORF for ALPA PRESIDENT
Crazy, I’m crazy for feelin’ so lonely…
“ALPA has failed at the fundamental task of effectively using pattern bargaining to enhance the careers of airline pilots.”
Really? I have only gotten a pay increase every year since coming back from furlough in 2007…
“The Association has failed to defend the profession for decades now. The attitude of ALPA National over the past few decades has been that they simply provide resources to our MEC’s, which in turn, are independent decision makers and negotiators for their own airline.”
Yeah, it means that outsiders like you don’t get to dictate terms on how the Delta pilots negotiate or choose their contracts.
“If elected ALPA President I can promise you that I will return true pattern bargaining to our union by “negotiating together” in conjunction with a long-term strategic view for the profession.”
Oh, so now pattern bargaining is good? What you propose looks like collectivism. I see no reason to treat you better than a drag chute.
"A recent example of using isolation bargaining to benefit corporations can be seen at Envoy Airlines (previously American Eagle) negotiating fiasco where management had insisted upon concessions from the Envoy pilots…"
When is the last time that management failed to insist on concessions? The pilots decide whether or not to accept concessions, not the president.
“ALPA National had their appointed ALPA attorney at the table negotiating alongside the pilots. Every MEC is appointed with one or more ALPA attorneys to represent them as contract and negotiations experts. This ALPA attorney, along with the National Officers, insisted that Envoy agree to the concession-laden proposal that management had demanded.”
ALPA lawyers don’t “insist,” they counsel. Is anyone here naïve enough to believe that Parker wouldn’t make good on his threat to divert aircraft deliveries? And everyone on APC said, “whoops, there’s an EICAS message, it says ‘update your resume.’” So the Envoy pilots were free to choose, just as the PSA pilots were free to choose, just as every single pilot group is free to choose. The lesson of American and the APA is that ALPA tells its members how to vote at its peril.
Fast forward a few months from the Envoy contract rejection, and what you find is that the same ALPA contract attorney and negotiations expert who “helped” the Envoy pilots, is now assigned to PSA (an express carrier for US Airways and is now part of the American Eagle Group). He and the National Officers are again insisting that they accept the same sort of B-scale and concessions that the Envoy pilots just turned down.
There you go with that verb again. How about some proof?
“This time around the PSA MEC agreed and sent it out for a vote and it passed by 61%. Here is what your current ALPA leadership brought to the PSA pilots at the expense of the Envoy pilots…”
Legal services aren’t “leadership,” that can only come from the PSA pilots who elect their MEC, and the negotiators they send to the table.
“If you haven’t seen Captain Moak’s latest Bloomberg/BusinessWeek interview in which he assures Wall Street that “we” won’t be seeking any major improvements in our contracts any time soon; you may want to read it:”
Pilot Contract Talks in 2015 to Come Amid Robust Airline Profits - Businessweek
Yeah, go ahead and read the article, I’m not re-posting her silly opinions of a piece that is aimed at speculators first, and pilots second. Moak won’t be ALPA’s president when my next contract is amended, and it will be the DELTA PILOTS, not Wall Street, and not whoever is the next president of ALPA, who decides.
Get off my lawn!
“Unfortunately, the UAL MEC Chairman and Candidate for ALPA President, Captain Jay Heppner, agrees with Lee Moak and other ALPA negotiators that “provisioning” is a win-win for ALPA and the A4A.”
Okay, every time you write “provisioning,” I want to puke. It’s MY scope, and I can vote any way I damn well please. For now, and likely forever, I am extremely loth to trade scope for money. I intend to take all our flying back, and I expect that the current implosion at the FFD sideshow is going to make the big tent at DAL even bigger without having to trade a dime for it.
“This October, the choice for ALPA President is clear.”
It sure is. Don't vote for the megalomaniac who has no idea how limited executive power is at ALPA, and why it should stay that way.
Crazy, I’m crazy for feelin’ so lonely…
“ALPA has failed at the fundamental task of effectively using pattern bargaining to enhance the careers of airline pilots.”
Really? I have only gotten a pay increase every year since coming back from furlough in 2007…
“The Association has failed to defend the profession for decades now. The attitude of ALPA National over the past few decades has been that they simply provide resources to our MEC’s, which in turn, are independent decision makers and negotiators for their own airline.”
Yeah, it means that outsiders like you don’t get to dictate terms on how the Delta pilots negotiate or choose their contracts.
“If elected ALPA President I can promise you that I will return true pattern bargaining to our union by “negotiating together” in conjunction with a long-term strategic view for the profession.”
Oh, so now pattern bargaining is good? What you propose looks like collectivism. I see no reason to treat you better than a drag chute.
"A recent example of using isolation bargaining to benefit corporations can be seen at Envoy Airlines (previously American Eagle) negotiating fiasco where management had insisted upon concessions from the Envoy pilots…"
When is the last time that management failed to insist on concessions? The pilots decide whether or not to accept concessions, not the president.
“ALPA National had their appointed ALPA attorney at the table negotiating alongside the pilots. Every MEC is appointed with one or more ALPA attorneys to represent them as contract and negotiations experts. This ALPA attorney, along with the National Officers, insisted that Envoy agree to the concession-laden proposal that management had demanded.”
ALPA lawyers don’t “insist,” they counsel. Is anyone here naïve enough to believe that Parker wouldn’t make good on his threat to divert aircraft deliveries? And everyone on APC said, “whoops, there’s an EICAS message, it says ‘update your resume.’” So the Envoy pilots were free to choose, just as the PSA pilots were free to choose, just as every single pilot group is free to choose. The lesson of American and the APA is that ALPA tells its members how to vote at its peril.
Fast forward a few months from the Envoy contract rejection, and what you find is that the same ALPA contract attorney and negotiations expert who “helped” the Envoy pilots, is now assigned to PSA (an express carrier for US Airways and is now part of the American Eagle Group). He and the National Officers are again insisting that they accept the same sort of B-scale and concessions that the Envoy pilots just turned down.
There you go with that verb again. How about some proof?
“This time around the PSA MEC agreed and sent it out for a vote and it passed by 61%. Here is what your current ALPA leadership brought to the PSA pilots at the expense of the Envoy pilots…”
Legal services aren’t “leadership,” that can only come from the PSA pilots who elect their MEC, and the negotiators they send to the table.
“If you haven’t seen Captain Moak’s latest Bloomberg/BusinessWeek interview in which he assures Wall Street that “we” won’t be seeking any major improvements in our contracts any time soon; you may want to read it:”
Pilot Contract Talks in 2015 to Come Amid Robust Airline Profits - Businessweek
Yeah, go ahead and read the article, I’m not re-posting her silly opinions of a piece that is aimed at speculators first, and pilots second. Moak won’t be ALPA’s president when my next contract is amended, and it will be the DELTA PILOTS, not Wall Street, and not whoever is the next president of ALPA, who decides.
Get off my lawn!
“Unfortunately, the UAL MEC Chairman and Candidate for ALPA President, Captain Jay Heppner, agrees with Lee Moak and other ALPA negotiators that “provisioning” is a win-win for ALPA and the A4A.”
Okay, every time you write “provisioning,” I want to puke. It’s MY scope, and I can vote any way I damn well please. For now, and likely forever, I am extremely loth to trade scope for money. I intend to take all our flying back, and I expect that the current implosion at the FFD sideshow is going to make the big tent at DAL even bigger without having to trade a dime for it.
“This October, the choice for ALPA President is clear.”
It sure is. Don't vote for the megalomaniac who has no idea how limited executive power is at ALPA, and why it should stay that way.
I know it's difficult to do, but everyone should try to read the italicized comments here from Starcheck102's original post. Classic high school sophomore stuff from a guy who couldn't debate if his life depended on it. Yet this character is one of the faces in legislative affairs. That's right, the face of your PAC dollars at work. How do you like it so far? Any wonder why we're getting our butts kicked in DC?
Carl
08-25-2014, 05:44 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Starcheck: our increases since 2007 have not been pattern bargaining in the classic sense. I very clearly remember Moak saying in a C44 meeting in the 08/09 time frame that pattern bargaining is dead.
Oberndorf might be just the sort of reform we need in some ways, but she makes me nervous just the same.
Oberndorf might be just the sort of reform we need in some ways, but she makes me nervous just the same.
Carl
08-25-2014, 05:44 PM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Some maroon on atl 320 asked for the low credit 3 days with 30 hours to continue. It really proves the point that another man's trash is another treasure, and the idea is building a better trip mix... not slamming it hard one way or another.
I despise 5-days, but the trip mix has improved to where I don't have to do them anymore. This month I had 75+ hours, 18 days off, and only 4 nights away from home! I also had 4 8:40 days....so, well... yeah.
I despise 5-days, but the trip mix has improved to where I don't have to do them anymore. This month I had 75+ hours, 18 days off, and only 4 nights away from home! I also had 4 8:40 days....so, well... yeah.
08-25-2014, 05:44 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
08-25-2014, 05:46 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
It would be nice to have a "union" president who seeks to capitalize on our leverage, instead of ****ing it away like Moak.
Does anyone think Canoll (entrenched insider) will do anything whatsoever to reform the bloated beauracracy?
Does anyone think Canoll (entrenched insider) will do anything whatsoever to reform the bloated beauracracy?
08-25-2014, 06:08 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
08-25-2014, 06:10 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I like that shes including all of us in here mailings, though.
I won't get to vote anyways....
08-25-2014, 06:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 282
They were suppose to remove the NWA galley at 2R.
08-25-2014, 06:33 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
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