Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-18-2009 | 10:11 AM
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From: JFK A-330 A
Essential:
Thanks for the info. I'll look at it later.
Thanks for the info. I'll look at it later.
11-18-2009 | 10:13 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Not sure if this conversation has ever occured but I doubt Scott Boras ever ridicules Manny or A-Rod and tells them that its not possible to do whatever it is they want to do, that they're not smart enough to understand, that if only they knew what he knew, and so on. They should be happy they still have a job and they should thank him for that.
Yeah, I'm going to hedge my bet and say that never happens. For those who don't know, Scott Boras is an arrogant ******* sports agent for the likes of A-Rod and other high profile mlb players. ts just too bad not every arrogant ******* can be as effective when it comes to negotiating.
Yeah, I'm going to hedge my bet and say that never happens. For those who don't know, Scott Boras is an arrogant ******* sports agent for the likes of A-Rod and other high profile mlb players. ts just too bad not every arrogant ******* can be as effective when it comes to negotiating.
11-18-2009 | 10:14 AM
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From: JFK A-330 A
Bus:
Thanks. Haven't had time to look over the FNWA F/As contract link posted above. Your input should save some time;-)
So managements hands aren't tied by a contract. Let's see after the vote...
Thanks. Haven't had time to look over the FNWA F/As contract link posted above. Your input should save some time;-)
So managements hands aren't tied by a contract. Let's see after the vote...
11-18-2009 | 10:20 AM
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Heyas,
Still waiting for the MECs much vaunted "100 seat plan". If you think of that as a warm up to the JAL JV, it's enough to send a chill into a Florida summer.
Slowplay = Drive-by media. Just enough "coverage" to be able to say "we covered it".
Nu
PS Technically, they're anoles (Anolis carolinensis). They fall out of the freekin' trees here.
Still waiting for the MECs much vaunted "100 seat plan". If you think of that as a warm up to the JAL JV, it's enough to send a chill into a Florida summer.
Slowplay = Drive-by media. Just enough "coverage" to be able to say "we covered it".
Nu
PS Technically, they're anoles (Anolis carolinensis). They fall out of the freekin' trees here.
11-18-2009 | 10:27 AM
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11-18-2009 | 10:27 AM
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From: A-320A
Now now, Slowplay and Sailing and Alpha all bring interesting points of view to the thread. They speak more authoritatively as to what the MEC is really thinking than most of the rest of us.
As to those in management, or ALPA, watching this board I doubt they even consider the opinions expressed here. They have much better information and they have a business to run. They might be like those of us who simply are Delta fans, have been Delta fans since they were kids and come here to see the "latest and greatest."
I'm not sure any of us have nearly enough facts to draw conclusions on a JAL joint venture. Based on past performance (and the obvious) our union will sell out junior members if they believe it benefits the more senior majority. This aligns our MEC with management to the extent that they can partner on outsourcing deals. "Relevance" might be a pseudonym for being willing to deal away our own jobs.
we've already "sold" so much RJ flying that we've flooded the market and management doesn't even need all the sub 76 seat scope relief they've got. The next market has to be something else, or somewhere else.
With "lines in the sand" who knows where they are drawn? From a pure economic point of view, the outsourcing argument works all the way up to whatever position the MEC Chair and those in power occupy. Once we decide that we are OK with selling each other out, the decision on where the line is drawn gets very fuzzy. While I understand the economic arguments for bargaining scope, as a union I have to see this as a moral absolute which can not be compromised. We must stop selling one member's job to benefit another member.
This all having been said, I have NO indication what so ever that our MEC is, or would, deal away another pilot's job. The political rhetoric seems to be more conservative on scope lately. But the candidates really did not adopt unity, or any other method to recover flying. ACL65 had the best plan, but he did not get elected, possibly because he was transparent & honest about scope.
Bottom line, we don't know where this is going and we really should not be critical when we are ignorant of the facts.
As to those in management, or ALPA, watching this board I doubt they even consider the opinions expressed here. They have much better information and they have a business to run. They might be like those of us who simply are Delta fans, have been Delta fans since they were kids and come here to see the "latest and greatest."
I'm not sure any of us have nearly enough facts to draw conclusions on a JAL joint venture. Based on past performance (and the obvious) our union will sell out junior members if they believe it benefits the more senior majority. This aligns our MEC with management to the extent that they can partner on outsourcing deals. "Relevance" might be a pseudonym for being willing to deal away our own jobs.
we've already "sold" so much RJ flying that we've flooded the market and management doesn't even need all the sub 76 seat scope relief they've got. The next market has to be something else, or somewhere else.
With "lines in the sand" who knows where they are drawn? From a pure economic point of view, the outsourcing argument works all the way up to whatever position the MEC Chair and those in power occupy. Once we decide that we are OK with selling each other out, the decision on where the line is drawn gets very fuzzy. While I understand the economic arguments for bargaining scope, as a union I have to see this as a moral absolute which can not be compromised. We must stop selling one member's job to benefit another member.
This all having been said, I have NO indication what so ever that our MEC is, or would, deal away another pilot's job. The political rhetoric seems to be more conservative on scope lately. But the candidates really did not adopt unity, or any other method to recover flying. ACL65 had the best plan, but he did not get elected, possibly because he was transparent & honest about scope.
Bottom line, we don't know where this is going and we really should not be critical when we are ignorant of the facts.
I do not think it is being ignorant of the facts. What people (me for one) are concerned about is that direction from the group does not see the light of day. We are told how wrong we are etc, etc. Instead of pointing fingers telling us we are wrong, Father Slow, should take the time to lay out facts without the spite.
The pilots of DAL want a win, and do not want to see more of their flying dolled out to other entities. That is a simple request. Is it not?
As for drawing conclusions, you are correct, but the words Slow uses, makes it sound like there is a clear path that is being taken.
I think all pilots agree that a greater footprint in the world is good, but more importantly is that we do not want to see that foot print cost us jobs. That is real simple.
If the MEC would communicate better with the rank and file, most would feel more informed, and probably would understand if not agree with most of the MEC's positions. It really all comes down to communication of our goals, objectives, and plan. Some of that needs to be disseminated to the group.
11-18-2009 | 10:33 AM
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From: A-320A
Wasn't pandering - - you did not have a chance to read the whole post because this web site signed me out before I could get the thing posted. Besides, pandering would do me no good.
You might know a lot more about this JV and staffing than I do. JAL turned in a dismal quarter and my concern is whether we could keep them (and us) afloat long enough to turn that around.
As you mentioned, in C44 I think Mike Hansen has a good perspective on this and I'm glad we elected him. I also think our current Reps have a good viewpoint on this issue. They do a lot better on flying that they don't see as beneath them. For example, they fought mergers with RJ operators, but did not hesitate to understand that unity with NWA was something we needed.
You might know a lot more about this JV and staffing than I do. JAL turned in a dismal quarter and my concern is whether we could keep them (and us) afloat long enough to turn that around.
As you mentioned, in C44 I think Mike Hansen has a good perspective on this and I'm glad we elected him. I also think our current Reps have a good viewpoint on this issue. They do a lot better on flying that they don't see as beneath them. For example, they fought mergers with RJ operators, but did not hesitate to understand that unity with NWA was something we needed.
) but the simple fact is that if we sit idly by and wait for the fact, they will come out in the form of a TA that has been ratified, passed, and signed by the Master Chairman before we are even given the opportunity for input. Bottom Up baby. That is why scientific online polling is the best option. Send me a e-mail with a website and a password to go to and I will gladly tell you what I think we need to do it you give me scenarios.
In a nut shell we are once again working in the cone of confusion and given the reaction of this group on previous events in this arena, we should be suspicious.
I agree that Mike Hanson will be an asset to the pilots of 44 when it comes to JV's. He will at least be able to explain the details and the hows and why to form an opinion. He should have decent judgment on this issue as it is his point of expertise. Too bad this will be done before he takes office.
11-18-2009 | 10:35 AM
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From: A-320A
11-18-2009 | 10:37 AM
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If the MEC would communicate better with the rank and file, most would feel more informed, and probably would understand if not agree with most of the MEC's positions. It really all comes down to communication of our goals, objectives, and plan. Some of that needs to be disseminated to the group.
11-18-2009 | 10:42 AM
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From: A-320A
You hit the nail right on the head. I said it before and I will say it again..... communication and transparency are the key for the rank and file folks. I agree with ACL....after picking up the phone and talking to reps, I find myself supporting most of the MEC positions. But they really need to communicate to us better.
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