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Old 09-21-2020 | 07:07 AM
  #199571  
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Originally Posted by theUpsideDown
​​​​​​Eh, I'm happy to let the grievance committee decide when and where a violation occurs, not sailing or apc.
Agreed!!!

Denny
Old 09-21-2020 | 07:12 AM
  #199572  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
So tell me, if this is not a FM event what exactly is in your opinion?
...so what you're saying is, you'd like to move onto arguments? Don't we have to file first?
Old 09-21-2020 | 07:13 AM
  #199573  
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Force majeure is defined by Merriam-Webster as an event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled— compare ACT OF GOD

Our contract language is much more broad than this.

“Circumstance over which the Company does not have control,” for the purposes of Section 1, means a circumstance that includes, but is not limited to, a natural disaster; labor dispute; grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical materials due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate(s); war emergency; owner’s delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery; manufacturer’s delay in delivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery. The term “circumstance over which the Company does not have control” will not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, or the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations.

This can be argued as applying to anything not specifically prohibited.
Old 09-21-2020 | 08:37 AM
  #199574  
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Originally Posted by notEnuf
Force majeure is defined by Merriam-Webster as an event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled— compare ACT OF GOD

Our contract language is much more broad than this.

“Circumstance over which the Company does not have control,” for the purposes of Section 1, means a circumstance that includes, but is not limited to, a natural disaster; labor dispute; grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical materials due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate(s); war emergency; owner’s delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery; manufacturer’s delay in delivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery. The term “circumstance over which the Company does not have control” will not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, or the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations.

This can be argued as applying to anything not specifically prohibited.
Then the next step, since the two sides wouldnt be able to agree this case applies to force majeure, the arbitrator would have both sides bring their notes discussing this language. Both sides would present their interpretation of FM and the notes from the meeting specifically addressing the INTENT of that language.

Believe it or not, law doesnt work off black and white, and it never has. Neither does labor contracts. Both sides had an intent when they negotiated that language. The company is probably right, but the union probably didnt say, "look if a corona virus ravages the globe and pax load crater, you aint trying to use that FM crap right?". But heres the problem, the company got bailed out. They convinced whole employee groups to just- leave, go on unemployment, so delta could pocket the money. So they pocketed all that money and had six months to deal with this insane crap. Now six months later, after ignoring us and deciding the small cost savings weren't enough to do anything, suddenly, they want to impose cost savings that wont balance the budget. Id like to hear an impartial arbitrator ask difficult questions like, "so six months of these guys begging you to negotiate and you shrugged them off?" Now its an emergency?

Last edited by theUpsideDown; 09-21-2020 at 08:48 AM.
Old 09-21-2020 | 02:16 PM
  #199575  
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Default Life Insurance

Establishing a Trust for probate purposes and the lawyers were asking about life insurance policy info. All I can find in our Benefits section is that it's through Metlife but the value isn't listed other than a generic 50k or 1xAnnual salary. I thought we had a significantly better benefit as a pilot group but can't find the info anywhere. Does anyone have a better source for the value and where I can find it listed? Thanks for any assistance.
Old 09-21-2020 | 02:28 PM
  #199576  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
It might be or it might not. At the moment it’s a slam dunk for the company with the rim lowered to 4 feet. As the economy recovers and imposed flight restrictions ease the rim starts to move higher. It will be very easy to show traffic volumes and eased restrictions down the road and make a compelling case. At the moment we don’t even have a case.
if we have a vaccine in the next 6 months I doubt we will even need a grievance.
How is this a slam dunk? Delta had abundant cash on hand, of which not a dime was required for 6 months of historic payroll. As we know, after involuntary leaves they probably don't need to spend a dime on payroll until 1Q2021. They also secured billions in lines of credit. Perhaps a slam dunk will materialize in 2021. We're not there yet.
Old 09-21-2020 | 02:33 PM
  #199577  
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Originally Posted by Shades of Blue
Establishing a Trust for probate purposes and the lawyers were asking about life insurance policy info. All I can find in our Benefits section is that it's through Metlife but the value isn't listed other than a generic 50k or 1xAnnual salary. I thought we had a significantly better benefit as a pilot group but can't find the info anywhere. Does anyone have a better source for the value and where I can find it listed? Thanks for any assistance.
It's in the R&I Benefits Handbook. You can find it on the ALPA Site, search for Benefits Handbook. The link is titled "DAL MEC RI Handbook 2020" Here's the key paragraph:


Your beneficiary(ies) will receive the proceeds of a Company-paid term life insurance
policy covering the pilot. Per the PWA, the amount is equal to 2,500 times the 12-year captain hourly rate on the highest-paying aircraft type outlined in the PWA in effect on January 1 of each year. Applying this formula, the Company-paid life insurance in effect is $885,000 in 2020. Note: A pilot may elect a lower amount of Company-paid life insurance, as explained below. You may designate any individual(s) or trust(s) as beneficiary for the Company-paid term life insurance.

It's in PWA 26.G

Last edited by iaflyer; 09-21-2020 at 03:12 PM.
Old 09-21-2020 | 02:53 PM
  #199578  
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Originally Posted by Shades of Blue
Establishing a Trust for probate purposes and the lawyers were asking about life insurance policy info. All I can find in our Benefits section is that it's through Metlife but the value isn't listed other than a generic 50k or 1xAnnual salary. I thought we had a significantly better benefit as a pilot group but can't find the info anywhere. Does anyone have a better source for the value and where I can find it listed? Thanks for any assistance.
The 1 year life insurance is the non-cons benefit you found on Deltanet. The answer you seek is found in the PWA 25.G.1.a.

2,500 hours at the highest published captain pay rate
Old 09-21-2020 | 07:20 PM
  #199579  
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Thanks folks. I obviously didn’t think to look in the PWA. Your assistance is much appreciated.
I wasn’t sure why that info was showing up under My Benefits if it wasn’t what applied to me.
Old 09-23-2020 | 09:00 PM
  #199580  
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Default DL2913 Thank You

Customer here. I want to give a shout out to the two gentlemen who piloted Delta 2913 tonight. It was an Airbus 319. I was in 14A, right next to the number one engine which failed dramatically just before rotation. The pilots took off and leveled off before returning to SLC. We were airborne for 18 minutes and they even had time to make a reassuring PA. We stopped on the runway and were met by fire trucks. I was happy to learn the same crew was in command of the second try on a new aircraft.

I know you guys are going through hell with the prospects of furloughs and pay cuts. Performance under pressure and sound decision making like I witnessed tonight are why you guys deserve top pay and benefits. Keep your heads high.
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