Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-30-2010 | 03:46 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Interesting discussion about "early Section Six".
A couple things I think we may be overlooking:
We can talk to management anytime we want. We can even "negotiate" about any subject, any time we want. Section six is not required for bargaining to take place.
However, a "Section Six Notice" is the big one. It has a very specific legal meaning under the RLA and starts a number of "clocks" ticking and triggers several legal duties and requirements.
The 270 day max for early talks is in the contract for a reason. It protects both parties. Under current circumstances, there is very little chance that management will waive that provision and open section six talks early.
Besides the RLA time clocks, if section 6 talks are under way, then "status quo" applies. That has a number of very powerful legal effects and it basically puts the entirety of our contractual relationship under the jurisdiction of the NMB.
Section 6 also provides for either party to force a start to mediation under the NMB and get the whole ball rolling on mediation, arbitration, cooling-off, PEB, Congressional action, etc. That's a huge political risk. For both parties.
Are you confident Obama would let us strike? Not me. The economy is fragile and he's got other irons in the fire.
Is management confident he would stop a strike? Nope.
That's why they will never agree to open early. JMHO.
A couple things I think we may be overlooking:
We can talk to management anytime we want. We can even "negotiate" about any subject, any time we want. Section six is not required for bargaining to take place.
However, a "Section Six Notice" is the big one. It has a very specific legal meaning under the RLA and starts a number of "clocks" ticking and triggers several legal duties and requirements.
The 270 day max for early talks is in the contract for a reason. It protects both parties. Under current circumstances, there is very little chance that management will waive that provision and open section six talks early.
Besides the RLA time clocks, if section 6 talks are under way, then "status quo" applies. That has a number of very powerful legal effects and it basically puts the entirety of our contractual relationship under the jurisdiction of the NMB.
Section 6 also provides for either party to force a start to mediation under the NMB and get the whole ball rolling on mediation, arbitration, cooling-off, PEB, Congressional action, etc. That's a huge political risk. For both parties.
Are you confident Obama would let us strike? Not me. The economy is fragile and he's got other irons in the fire.
Is management confident he would stop a strike? Nope.
That's why they will never agree to open early. JMHO.
If management is reticent to begin Section 6 early, DALPA needs to request "Pre-Section 6" negotiating sessions with the goal of achieving a new contract no later than the amendable date of our current contract.
If DALPA is too scared to ask, I want to know that. If management doesn't want to talk, I want to know that as well.
Carl
01-30-2010 | 03:50 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,350
Likes: 0
From: Flying the SEC
Carl, honest question. Why is it so important to you to have an "industry leading contract"? Why is SWA +1% such a litmus test to you? What does it matter what anyone else makes?
No sarcasm or hidden meanings here, just an honest question.
No sarcasm or hidden meanings here, just an honest question.
01-30-2010 | 03:51 PM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
You're right about not needing to start via Section 6. Management certainly didn't need it for our bankruptcy contracts.
If management is reticent to begin Section 6 early, DALPA needs to request "Pre-Section 6" negotiating sessions with the goal of achieving a new contract no later than the amendable date of our current contract.
If DALPA is too scared to ask, I want to know that. If management doesn't want to talk, I want to know that as well.
Carl
If management is reticent to begin Section 6 early, DALPA needs to request "Pre-Section 6" negotiating sessions with the goal of achieving a new contract no later than the amendable date of our current contract.
If DALPA is too scared to ask, I want to know that. If management doesn't want to talk, I want to know that as well.
Carl
01-30-2010 | 04:08 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
1. We are the world's largest airline
2. We have the most diversly experienced pilot group
3. fDAL pilots were responsible for blocking USAir's attempt at buying DAL
4. All pilots were responsible for making the DAL/NWA merger smooth as silk
Given the above, nothing other than an industry leading contract is appropriate.
Carl
01-30-2010 | 04:12 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
What's the downside if they don't? I would like to see the MEC Chairman say the same thing to them that he said to the Wall Street banks that were going to finance the USAir purchase of Delta: "It's going to be very difficult to operate an airline with angry pilots."
Carl
01-30-2010 | 04:15 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
What's in it for them? The continued cooperation of a highly skilled pilot group that has built and defended Delta Air Lines.
What's the downside if they don't? I would like to see the MEC Chairman say the same thing to them that he said to the Wall Street banks that were going to finance the USAir purchase of Delta: "It's going to be very difficult to operate an airline with angry pilots."
Carl
What's the downside if they don't? I would like to see the MEC Chairman say the same thing to them that he said to the Wall Street banks that were going to finance the USAir purchase of Delta: "It's going to be very difficult to operate an airline with angry pilots."
Carl
Well said Carl.
01-30-2010 | 04:18 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,971
Likes: 0
From: Kickin’ Back
[quote=forgot to bid;754716]Denny,
I am being altruistic here. Please accept my altrusticity as you are senior to me and by suggesting this I am offering something that will... sigh... keep you senior longer.
I highly suggest Ms Jillian Michaels from the biggest loser. She has a 30 day video. Its easy on the eyes (especially her helper) and she'll kick your tail in 20 minutes and your wife will do it with you.
Yep.
Not afraid to admit it. I prefer looking at women while I'm working out. I'm down 15 lbs.
I'm so tempted to post some of these pictures I find of Jillian Michaels and friends but I won't...
FtB,
Thanks for the heads up. I'll take a look at it. So far I've lost about 18lbs and I'm in the money for a couple of bucks!!
Don't let me stop you from posting any pictures........I'm a big fan of most of the pictures posted here!
Oh, and I'll be a happy man if my wife decides to do it with me!
Denny
I am being altruistic here. Please accept my altrusticity as you are senior to me and by suggesting this I am offering something that will... sigh... keep you senior longer.
I highly suggest Ms Jillian Michaels from the biggest loser. She has a 30 day video. Its easy on the eyes (especially her helper) and she'll kick your tail in 20 minutes and your wife will do it with you.
Yep.
Not afraid to admit it. I prefer looking at women while I'm working out. I'm down 15 lbs.
I'm so tempted to post some of these pictures I find of Jillian Michaels and friends but I won't...
FtB,
Thanks for the heads up. I'll take a look at it. So far I've lost about 18lbs and I'm in the money for a couple of bucks!!
Don't let me stop you from posting any pictures........I'm a big fan of most of the pictures posted here!
Oh, and I'll be a happy man if my wife decides to do it with me!Denny
01-30-2010 | 04:23 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
FtB,
Thanks for the heads up. I'll take a look at it. So far I've lost about 18lbs and I'm in the money for a couple of bucks!!
Don't let me stop you from posting any pictures........I'm a big fan of most of the pictures posted here! Oh, and I'll be a happy man if my wife decides to do it with me!
Denny
Thanks for the heads up. I'll take a look at it. So far I've lost about 18lbs and I'm in the money for a couple of bucks!!
Don't let me stop you from posting any pictures........I'm a big fan of most of the pictures posted here!
Oh, and I'll be a happy man if my wife decides to do it with me!Denny
01-30-2010 | 04:23 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
01-30-2010 | 04:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,971
Likes: 0
From: Kickin’ Back
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
