I have been trying to get one since Thursday. Too many guys are getting white slips.

Here is the actual verbiage from the Scheduling Reference Handbook. Maybe the coverage has to be good for the whole trip...

Q: Can I use payback days in a regular line month to drop a trip? How will I be paid?

A: Yes, by mutual agreement with Crew Scheduling. You may enter your request in PCS under “Leave Requests” by selecting “Payback Days.” Your pay will depend on the number of payback days available for use. If the number of days available are sufficient to cover the entire rotation, that number of days will be used and you will be paid for the entire rotation. If the number of days is not sufficient to cover the entire rotation, all available payback days will be placed on the days of the rotation, beginning with the first of such days, and you will be paid the value of those days only. You will forfeit any pay or guarantee for the remainder of the rotation. Note that credit resulting from application of duty rigs is always tied to the last duty period of the rotation.

Denny

He could use his APD and drop the trip then cover it wit a PB day to net the cash.

New hires hitting the line.

You sure get a lot out of a simple statement on how long a contract will take.
That statement was based on the fact that management is not going to agree with what the majority of pilots will consider acceptable on a contract. There is going to be no offer of 12.8 percent upfront. They might offer 2 or 3. It will take 3 years past the amendable date to get into the heart of mediation.

I think Sailing is just looking at the tea leaves and issuing a personal prediction. Right now I see little incentive for the big D to be in a hurry to sign a new contract, for the first time in many years I see a mostly pro us ( DALPA) bargaining position.
I'm a little tired of this casting of dispersion when someone posts something that you don't agree with. Why don't you instead post coherent rebuttals instead of the usual anti ALPA drivel ?
As to your pay rate comparisons: My pay rate in 2004 and my pay rate now are basically the same thanks to all the lemmings that allowed me to move to the top of the food chain. My W2 for this past year was 30% higher than my 2004 W2. There is more to a contract then pay rates and I know that there is a huge difference between me and the bottom of the food chain. The good thing is we each have an equal vote.

No worries whatsoever. By never releasing the survey results, the MEC will decide in its sole discretion what the majority opinion of the pilot group is. Just like last time.

That's correct...because the MEC won't even ask for it. Just like last time.

Because that's what the MEC will hail as an epic victory.

I guess that will depend on whether Sleepy Ed feels that 3/3/3/3 is just too generous.

Carl

You shouldn't use big words in sentences when you don't know what they mean finis. Look up "dispersion" versus "aspersions" when you're ready to stop posting drivel. ;)

Carl

Carl, are these predications like your statements a few years ago that Delta management was liquidating the airline?

I'm just making it home off a trip, so I apologize for the brief response. It's really just a question -- I guess for anyone.

How are American's pay rates going to be calculated in the future?

Somewhere I thought I saw where Americans pay rates will somehow be tied to the average of us and United and maybe someone else (SWA?). Is that true?

Were the 2004 v 2014 pay rate charts not coherent enough for you? How about the CPI? You know that it takes 26% more $ today to equal $1.00 in 2004?

Remind me who negotiates our contracts?

Complete BS. There are no pay rates in 2014 that are "basically the same" as 2004 pay rates. You are delusional if you actually believe this to be true.

The 2014 pay rates are as much as 20% LOWER than in 2014, and that's without including the loss of purchasing power due to inflation. That's a FACT. No amount of spinning will change that FACT.

Your sky is green and the earth blue "argument" aren't very persuasive.

And there are MANY reasons why that could be so, but one thing is for sure---it is NOT because the 2014 pay rates are superior to those from 2004.

Your pay rate is roughly 20% LESS, that's right LESS than in 2004. It matters not, except to you, what your W-2 was from last year. Of course to you, that's all that matters. What matters is the apples-to-apples pay rate comparison. If you think they are "basically the same" from 2004 to 2014 then you are completely beyond help.

Translation- I got mine, pull up the ladder.

How? I would think once the trip is gone via the APD, there is nothing for the PB day to cover........the trip is already gone.

Denny

Holy cow, you too? Predications?

If you meant predictions, please find any post of mine where I've ever said Delta management was liquidating the airline.

Carl

A few years ago, it was all about "the time value of money." Sort of like, hurry up, let's do this.

Now, this contract is going to take 3 plus years?

Why the change?

I like the words drivel, tripe, blather, balderdash and the not enough used poppycock, among others. I also like aspersions, dispersions, predications and anything else Archie Bunker might have used in a sentence. I think we all ought to get tattoos.

Hilarious photos of misspelt tattoos - Telegraph

It's allowed, you call Skeds.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Look alfa, I understand your need to walk back your earlier comments about showing active pilots as a metric to "prove" that we're not liquidating. But nothing of this post changes the fact that we are operating ~70 aircraft less, we're selling off real estate and business centers, and we're "laying off" non-frontline employees. When you do these things and don't replace them with anything, that's slowly liquidating. How long will it continue? Who knows. But that's our reality.

Carl

Nothing has changed. Sailing is still making the same time value of money argument.

He says RA (our CEO who owns more than $100 million in DAL stock/options) won't give us 12.8% upfront (forget the fact that we're 20% behind 2004 pay rates, not including inflation). As if a 12.8% is some pie in the sky figure---it still doesn't get us where we were a decade ago, or, by the time sailing says this will play out, 15 years later!

Sailing is basically saying your choice is to either "hold out" for 3+ years or---take the 3/3/3/3 and be happy.

That is exactly what he is saying.

Well.. not exactly, but I love AAPL. ;)

Yup.. 100% correct Carl.:rolleyes:

Wow Carl, you're 2 for 2. How DO you do it?:rolleyes:

Bless your heart.

I have heard elsewhere that they do not want to lead the pack for the reasons sailing stated. I have no idea if that is typical sentiment over there, and I agree that it would be a flimsy plan. What is really interesting is to see if they will be willing to relax that golden scope clause in order for the company to build alliances. If not... stagnation is a very real probability there. Something will eventually have to give, and I would bet sooner rather than later. The single aircraft type model is about as thin as practical, so that really leaves 2 options.... I am guessing that neither will be enthusiastically accepted by SWAPA.

dALPA/management hack.:D

My crashpad mates told me the other day that they hope DAL pilots get a billion dollars each in our next contract because it is a me too average of some sort like you said... What the percentages are and who's involved.. I have no clue.

Ooooh I believe the Air Force guys like to say "Shack".

The rebuttal spin should be epic. But very predictable.

lulz

You really don't read your own posts. But I think this post of mine was 5 or 6 years ago when our management was indeed slowly liquidating the airline in an attempt to stem our rather large losses. That wasn't a prediction (or predication in your case), it was a statement of fact. I finished it with what I bolded above so even you should have been able to see it wasn't a prediction/predication.

Carl

Classic........ just as predicated.

No need to state your title, we already knew that. :cool:

That's exactly right. Sailingfud is just continuing the same FUD campaign he's waged since he first got here. You're not supposed to be smart enough to see through the FUD campaign though index. You're not playing fair.

Carl

The post was winter 2011

So what is behind door number three then? Hold out, or take the 3/3/3/3 (lulz)... or.... ? And how long will we have to hold out. I'll go on record, and you can copy this Carl for your trophy wall... as saying I do not care how long it takes. TVM is a myth,:rolleyes: (That Buffett guy is such a moron) and all I want is a bigger paycheck anyway. :D

Have fun with that one....

The funny thing is Carl I have no intention of accepting 3,3,3 or anything close. Throw 12.8 out upfront and 4,4 you will however have my interest depending on the rest of the package.
My point is simple. Management is not going to run their pilot costs way above the rest of the industry without a long drawn out fight.
You seem to think that if DALPA just demands the company will throw money at us. Sadly that's not going to happen.

He knows that. He also knows that 3/3/3/3 won't even remotely pass. He's just being Carl.

Then why don't you link the post? Regardless, here's what you said.

Again, the answer is no because I never predicted (or predicated) management was liquidating the airline. I just stated the fact they were doing so when they were doing so. Then further stated who knows how long it will last.

Is this what you need to do to deflect from how often you are flat out wrong?

Carl

We are about 10 months from exchanging openers and already the usual suspects on both sides are sharpening their swords. This thread has become sadly predictable.

There will never be "unity" as long as DALPA/management operatives are here managing expectations ever lower.

MD preaches unity, while allowing--directing?--his hacks to undermine line pilots' efforts to attain our max potential in C15.

Crazy, really. I can't figure out what we're getting in return for our dues money. Just another bureaucracy-bred layer of blubber trying to keep itself fat, all the while becoming more and more out of touch with the line pilots' wishes, I guess.

If I had to predict, the NC will bring the reps a signed TA something close to that with the cost of those pay raises fully funded by concessions in other areas. You will quote the MEC administation's mantra of a huge victory and the time value of money. Management will tell Wall Street that the pilots have agreed to another cost neutral contract. DALPA will say we got a billion dollars out of them without showing any data to prove it. MEC will pursue massive sales and fear campaign. You and sailingfud will do what you always do. Then it will pass 60-40.

It all depends on when Richard tells our "union" that it's time to sign a new contract.

Carl

If I had to guess, I'd say it's still TVM, only in this case he thinks it will take that long for the TVM balance to work out in our favor.