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Originally Posted by Galaxydriver
(Post 2850517)
“Mission”? We have jobs and get paid for trips. No missions.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro I agree, along with: -Tactical Cost Index (most airlines call it Cost Index) -Aircraft Commander -Flight Leader -Target Landing Window |
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
(Post 2850502)
Good one, .....I'm laughing me ole arse off at that one...... "grumbletonian".....good play
When you grow up you will realize the is no "free lunch" The company will pay (X) $$$$$$ for a contract......how we split it up is up to us |
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
(Post 2850504)
My bad(that's not an apology).....but thanks for the warning
Slow typer Nite, nite John boy Are you sure he/she is grumbletonian enough to get that jab? |
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 2850520)
One things for sure. Our union is going forward with deferred compensation in the company's name. We never learn.
Who's motivation would you trust? |
It's hard to even comprehend how much money Delta is making, just as much (or more) on the backs of pilots hired in the last 5 years as 25.
Ok. Thats the direct quote of your assertion. Id like to see your math to support how the 1/3 or so of the pilots hired in.last 5 years are producing more of the current economic results 'on their backs' than the rest of us? Both in the day to day ops as well as the structural economics of the corporation paryicularly since bankruptcy. Are they on half pay or less hourly scales for these five years? Like many of the pilots hired in the last 25 years were? Have we sumhow otherwise denied them full access to pwa compensation and conditions to disproportionately subsidize the company economic performance? Please. Enlighten me. Pilots hired in the last five years joined an airline on the cusp of a booming economic success......built 100% ON THE BACKS of those pilots hired in the previous 25 years. We have year 2 pilots that are in the left seat....and more than a few making well into 6 figures.....all as a result of the pwa and economic position the rest of us built and paid for. So please. Spare me the cup-o-coffee comparisons. |
Originally Posted by TED74
(Post 2850555)
Just so we're clear, these aren't just "my issues." I'm not a new hire, I'm not stuck in a base or category I don't want to be in, I'm not junior at Delta and I'm not junior in my category. I'm simply advocating for those folks because we (Delta and DALPA) can afford to. I understand things are way better for them than they've ever been, but I'll keep reading all the ways that's true if people want to keep listing them. It's interesting history and it's healthy to keep things in perspective. You can call these issues peanuts and they probably are; I have never claimed otherwise. So is the latest LOA in my mind... but I'm happy for the incremental improvement it should bring about.
We could pay for new hire hotels with a reduction in per diem (or reduction in gains there) of about 1 cent per hour. I spend way more than that on coffee for FAs and gate agents, but if that's too rich for some or it's "stealing from senior to give to junior," I guess I'm a socialist. As far as extraction by the company from 5- or 25-year guys - you're misquoting me repetitively and if you keep doing it you might make me think I said something I didn't. The idea that a 3-year pilot has given more to Delta than a 30-year guy who lost his pension would be asinine and that's probably why you have so much fun attacking it. But that's not what I said. Should a new hire get profit sharing? There might be some who think not. How about a 2010 hire? Again, some think not. After all, those profits were made possible by the sacrifices of those who went through BK, and they'll never be made whole, right? In my world view, which I hold simply as my own, I'm glad everyone partakes in PS at an equal percentage of eligible earnings. The newbie flying a thousand of our hours in a year that we generate billions in profits helped produce those very profits... profits that are higher than historic by a factor of 20 or more. How much is attributable to his thousand hours of flying is debatable and frankly unknowable. I'm simply saying improving that new pilot's QOL is as important to me as improving that of the top 10%. There is an expense associated with that, and of course we'd all pay for it. I've also advocated for paying PS at some undetermined level for perhaps 5 years after retirement to ease the blow on retiring dead zoners, and clearly we'd all pay for that too. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2850227)
Are you saying being senior and getting Inverse Assignments calls are affecting your QOL? (I'm assuming you're not picking up the phone)
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
(Post 2849929)
Yes. We will not leave revenue pax behind.
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Originally Posted by House of Usher
(Post 2850633)
I agree, along with:
-Tactical Cost Index (most airlines call it Cost Index) -Aircraft Commander -Flight Leader -Target Landing Window We have a cost index, that is what your release is planned at and that is how other airlines use the term as well. The tactical cost index is if you adjust your speed or the cost index itself based on changing situations such as arriving very early or running late and want to tell the company that you did so. Tactics isn't just a military term. Since you don't know what tactical cost index is, I'm going to guess you don't know that the target landing window is what you are supposed to use to determine whether to use a tactical cost index. I've never heard anyone use Aircraft Commander and "flight leader" for the A line flight attendant seems to be fairly common. |
Originally Posted by House of Usher
(Post 2850633)
I agree, along with:
-Tactical Cost Index (most airlines call it Cost Index) -Aircraft Commander -Flight Leader -Target Landing Window Maybe we could start bidding for Deployments instead of trips and rotations. |
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
(Post 2851085)
It is comical how we like to borrow military terms related to breaking things and killing people, when we are really just moving people and things from point A to point B. Isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery.
Maybe we could start bidding for Deployments instead of trips and rotations. Agree completely. “Tactical” doesn’t apply in commercial airline travel. Trying to apply it makes you sound like a poser. There is no mission. There is no adversary. We’re just giving folks a ride to where they want to go. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
(Post 2851085)
It is comical how we like to borrow military terms related to breaking things and killing people, when we are really just moving people and things from point A to point B. Isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery.
Maybe we could start bidding for Deployments instead of trips and rotations. But hey, the military was importing PC from the airlines the last decade like transitioning to "flight deck" etc.... |
Who the heck cares? As long as the paychecks keep getting deposited, I couldn't care less where the verbiage we use comes from.
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Originally Posted by crewdawg
(Post 2851128)
Who the heck cares? As long as the paychecks keep getting deposited, I couldn't care less where the verbiage we use comes from.
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Originally Posted by Gunfighter
(Post 2851085)
It is comical how we like to borrow military terms related to breaking things and killing people, when we are really just moving people and things from point A to point B. Isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery.
Maybe we could start bidding for Deployments instead of trips and rotations. |
Originally Posted by tomgoodman
(Post 2851184)
As a retired van admiral, I think we should go full nautical. Belay the lubberly scuttlebutt, stow those sea bags, hoist the jetway, batten all overwing hatches, and shove off! Arrrrrr. :D
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Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
(Post 2850489)
Not later you reading challenged nit-wit...... did you just gloss over the (TIC) that was in the first post? hmmmmmm.....point proven.....look up humor again.....I find you humorous.....I didn't think that was your goal, but it was mine.....that you didn't find it humorous .....tough Titt....ies
I'm not here to compare Johnson's about who had it worst......my point is......... IT'S A ZERO SUM GAME......IF THE BOTTOM OF THE SENIORITY DOES BETTER,THE TOP OF THE SENIORITY PAYS FOR IT. Just like Democratic Socialism....when the bottom 50% of the voters(who pay NO federal income tax) vote for more "free" sh*t".....the government/company doesn't pay for it......those bearing the tax load do So, if the "less senior" get their "come-uppance, they get a win .....but he senior guys get...nada......that's win/no win Sorry if life's "facts" are too much for you THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.......... I don’t even think he is one of our pilots. (I hope he isn’t) I think he is a troll and trying to incite anger and vitriol. Stop feeding the troll, please. |
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
(Post 2850181)
Let's start a letter campaign to not only the company but also ALPA, informing them that the bottom 10% have a crappy QOL and from here on out refuse to fly on....... Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Festivus, New Years Eve, New Year's day, Memorial Day, Labor Day, my wife's birthday, my kid's birthday, my dog's birthday, St. Patrick's Day, Valentine's Day, Super Bowl Weekend, Halloween, President's Day, Columbus Day, and especially Aviation Day.
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^^^^This^^^^
Denny |
Originally Posted by JamesBond
(Post 2851385)
Holiday pay fixes all of that. Instantaneously
Seniority would still let you rule..... just instead of a few getting double time, more could get some override %. |
If the company was smart they would be for Holiday Pay too. Just look at the problems there are covering trips over holidays and how many go out as GS's. Where the company might have heartburn is if a GS over a holiday paid double the holiday pay.....essentially making it 4X regular pay. I suspect something could be written into the contract to avoid this uhhhhh predicament.
Denny |
Ummm......we just posted record numbers.
I think the 'company' is pretty dang smart. :) Or consistently lucky. |
Not saying they are dumb by any stretch of the imagination but they have said some dumb things in the past.....Maybe they just need the advantages pointed out to them...
I've always said "I'd rather be lucky than good!" Denny |
I think im gona file a lawsuit to get paid as CEO for life to point out to them how much they missed by not elevating me to the position.
A jury of my peers makes it a lock. Haha! |
If I was on the jury I'd vote in your favor!;)
Denny |
Originally Posted by BobZ
(Post 2851676)
I think im gona file a lawsuit to get paid as CEO for life to point out to them how much they missed by not elevating me to the position.
A jury of my peers makes it a lock. Haha! |
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
(Post 2851667)
If the company was smart they would be for Holiday Pay too. Just look at the problems there are covering trips over holidays and how many go out as GS's. Where the company might have heartburn is if a GS over a holiday paid double the holiday pay.....essentially making it 4X regular pay. I suspect something could be written into the contract to avoid this uhhhhh predicament.
Denny I would think Holiday pay wouldn't have to be 2x.....more like 1.5x for the holiday period and if you did GS over it, stay at the 2x level now. I think even at a 1.5x via PBS it would all go senior. |
I'm against holiday pay because of the Greenslip system. If you can't hold holidays off and that's your priority bid somewhere where you can get it off ofr with the movement we are having stay in your seat for a year or two.
We have much bigger fish to fry like health insurance, Deadheading and retirement then worrying about holidays where alot of pilots are already being paid 200% Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk |
To some, holidays off is a very real QOL item, and it's worth talking about in negotiations. In my category, it's mostly ultra senior guys getting GS over holidays anyway. Why not just have it hashed out in the PBS process? I love me a GS here and there as well, but I'd much rather have holiday pay so the guys who want to fly will bid it. Then guys who want to be home, get stability in knowing they'll be home.
Just saying wait a bit longer is along the lines of, "well I had to deal with it, so you should too"...it doesn't have to be this way. We're all professionals who've paid plenty of dues at the regionals or in the military. Being junior can be terrible enough, there is no reason to not try and make it just a bit better. It's funny to me that we have guys that are of the mindset of protect the GS system at all costs. I'm all for keeping the current GS system in place. But to intentionally NOT go for QOL items in our PWA so they'll continue to get GS's is not only self serving, but also an extremely short sighted way of looking at things. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2851978)
I'm against holiday pay because of the Greenslip system. If you can't hold holidays off and that's your priority bid somewhere where you can get it off ofr with the movement we are having stay in your seat for a year or two.
We have much bigger fish to fry like health insurance, Deadheading and retirement then worrying about holidays where alot of pilots are already being paid 200% Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by crewdawg
(Post 2851985)
To some, holidays off is a very real QOL item, and it's worth talking about in negotiations. In my category, it's mostly ultra senior guys getting GS over holidays anyway. Why not just have it hashed out in the PBS process? I love me a GS here and there as well, but I'd much rather have holiday pay so the guys who want to fly will bid it. Then guys who want to be home, get stability in knowing they'll be home.
Just saying wait a bit longer is along the lines of, "well I had to deal with it, so you should too"...it doesn't have to be this way. We're all professionals who've paid plenty of dues at the regionals or in the military. Being junior can be terrible enough, there is no reason to not try and make it just a bit better. It's funny to me that we have guys that are of the mindset of protect the GS system at all costs. I'm all for keeping the current GS system in place. But to intentionally NOT go for QOL items in our PWA so they'll continue to get GS's is not only self serving, but also an extremely short sighted way of looking at things. |
Originally Posted by crewdawg
(Post 2851985)
To some, holidays off is a very real QOL item, and it's worth talking about in negotiations. In my category, it's mostly ultra senior guys getting GS over holidays anyway. Why not just have it hashed out in the PBS process? I love me a GS here and there as well, but I'd much rather have holiday pay so the guys who want to fly will bid it. Then guys who want to be home, get stability in knowing they'll be home.
Just saying wait a bit longer is along the lines of, "well I had to deal with it, so you should too"...it doesn't have to be this way. We're all professionals who've paid plenty of dues at the regionals or in the military. Being junior can be terrible enough, there is no reason to not try and make it just a bit better. It's funny to me that we have guys that are of the mindset of protect the GS system at all costs. I'm all for keeping the current GS system in place. But to intentionally NOT go for QOL items in our PWA so they'll continue to get GS's is not only self serving, but also an extremely short sighted way of looking at things. |
Originally Posted by crewdawg
(Post 2851985)
To some, holidays off is a very real QOL item, and it's worth talking about in negotiations. In my category, it's mostly ultra senior guys getting GS over holidays anyway. Why not just have it hashed out in the PBS process? I love me a GS here and there as well, but I'd much rather have holiday pay so the guys who want to fly will bid it. Then guys who want to be home, get stability in knowing they'll be home.
Just saying wait a bit longer is along the lines of, "well I had to deal with it, so you should too"...it doesn't have to be this way. We're all professionals who've paid plenty of dues at the regionals or in the military. Being junior can be terrible enough, there is no reason to not try and make it just a bit better. It's funny to me that we have guys that are of the mindset of protect the GS system at all costs. I'm all for keeping the current GS system in place. But to intentionally NOT go for QOL items in our PWA so they'll continue to get GS's is not only self serving, but also an extremely short sighted way of looking at things. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2851978)
I'm against holiday pay because of the Greenslip system. If you can't hold holidays off and that's your priority bid somewhere where you can get it off ofr with the movement we are having stay in your seat for a year or two.
We have much bigger fish to fry like health insurance, Deadheading and retirement then worrying about holidays where alot of pilots are already being paid 200% Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk If only there was a way to get the people who don’t care to be home anyway the extra cash they are looking for so that others who would rather be home could be... |
Originally Posted by full of luv
(Post 2851858)
They think it's smart for the FA's, GS people, etc....
I would think Holiday pay wouldn't have to be 2x.....more like 1.5x for the holiday period and if you did GS over it, stay at the 2x level now. I think even at a 1.5x via PBS it would all go senior. I mean bid a 48 hour overnight in germany and get 1.5x pay. Plan in advance to bring the family. Or 30 hours in CUN, or 30 hours in Dayton because you hate life. Whatever floats your boat. As a senior pilot I would love that option. Besides a known always beats the unknown gamble to me. And I say all of that as a senior pilot who bids christmas vacations and have no interest in this and would not benefit in any way. I think a lot of guys would like it. |
I think holiday pay would either go 1.5 x’s for any trip touching APD holidays, or 2 x’s just on the APD holiday days. 2 or even 2.5 x’s would be nice, and maybe an opening position, but don’t think it would ever get into a TA.
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Is TravelNet inaccessible for others or is it just me?
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Originally Posted by buckleyboy
(Post 2852392)
Is TravelNet inaccessible for others or is it just me?
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Originally Posted by full of luv
(Post 2852432)
I often get that if Safari hasn't been completely closed in awhile. Usually restarting Safari or switching to another browser gets you back in.....
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Originally Posted by buckleyboy
(Post 2852392)
Is TravelNet inaccessible for others or is it just me?
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