I have an idea to fix this, let’s run a massive displacement and then once everyone gets awarded their new positions, let’s run and. Early out program …………

How feasible is it to pick up flying in other domiciles? Are there any restrictions around doing so?

Out of base whiteslips(trip pickups)are straight pay for regular line holders. In base whiteslips always come first. There are basically two scenarios for coverage:

1). >12 hours to report: must be no reserves available in that base.
2). <12 hours to report: you are higher priority than in base short call pilots.

Outside of 12 hours, you are probably taking a double pay trip from an in base pilot. Inside of 12 hours, you might be saving a short call pilot from being called out, but probably taking a double pay trip from an in base pilot. It’s legal per the contract…

Back when reserve levels were higher, there were many pilots who couldn’t hold an aircraft in their nearest base, so they’d bid NYC, and drop their entire schedule and poach out of base trips. With manning how it is now, I imagine it would be difficult to use that strategy.

Thanks!!!!

It’s interesting you say it’s misleading when I address that same caveat in my post.

in addition to what Omar said, the earliest you can OOBWS is day prior to the trip. Not nearly as much flexibility as some other places

True. English was always my worst subject.

But I also don’t think you can draw a conclusion that people are leaving us by the fact that 1000 CJOs offered and only 600-whatever have started.

Anyone know how often a new hire fails out of training? Could someone tell me how the training is at Delta? Thank you!

You have to try to fail out of training here. Its not quite spoon feed but its about as dumbed down as it possibly could be.

Indoc is explaining what ramp frequency is to the part of the class whose never flown airlines. Then explaining ramp frequency isnt going anywhere and theyll get used to it. Then slavishly drawing out a ramp diagram and explaining it again slowly with pictures. Then you as a classmate explaining it again saying "yeah no ****, most airports".

Try not to fall asleep.

Anyone have a rough estimate on how many early retirements were taken over the last two years?

I think around 2200 took the VEOP. Most were cut loose right away, maybe 1/3 were kept on to meter the loss on some fleets. Not sure how many (if any) pilots who took the VEOP are still active on the list.

And about 400 of those retracted. It was around 1800 the total of the VEOP.

Does that 674 include the Dec 28 class with 73 in it? If not, that’s 747 pilots, we’re filling classes into February and they’re expecting 200 per month, that’s 947 including January classes. Now we’re getting pretty close to that 1000 CJO number.

Not this again. So if a straight pay trip works for someone they should defer so someone can be paid double? No one is “taking” double pay from anyone. The guy “getting” double pay is doing so bc no one is avail at straight pay. Don’t ever feel guilty for doi no what’s best for you within the bounds of our contract. You don’t owe any unknown pilot double pay if it suits your needs. If you don’t like that, call your rep and lobby to have the item removed from the PWA.

Does anybody know if we lose reroute pay if we deviate from the scheduled deadhead? I read the contract but want to make sure before I do it since it's a chunk of change. Thanks.

You do not lose pay but you also won't get any extra if the scheduled deadhead over-blocks. However, per diem stops on the last leg before the DH so you have that "hit." 😁

For new hires, how long of a wait is it to be stationed in Atlanta?

I currently live in Atlanta, so assuming I could get hired that would be nice to not have to commute. Currently reading through the various forums trying to get more knowledgeable on the Delta hiring process before I put in an application.

Depends on AE schedule, what plane you get out of InDoc, etc.
Some new hires have gotten ATL out the gate. Depends on the last 4 of your SSN (higher the better) and what the options are for your class.

Your entire life as an airline pilot is determined by your seniority number. Wait for nothing before submitting you app. Become more knowledgeable tomorrow. Get your app in today.

I'd caveat by saying to submit when you are certain that the information is accurate and representative of who you are as a professional. There's always small changes you can make to fine tune but don't submit without speed tickets, checkride failures or the like expecting to add those later.

I’d like to get some opinions or pros/cons from anyone on a Delta vs. United decision. Currently have a CJO to both and am trying to gather as much data as possible to make a good decision. Any insight is greatly appreciated!

Looking more for a company perspective. My family wants to settle down on west coast, both airlines have good options for that.

You'll have a very successful career either way (barring the occasional pandemic...). First and foremost if only one of those has a domicile where you actually live or want to live (SEA, SFO, LAX,, etc,) go there. If you live where you're going to have to commute for either one then it gets more tricky. If widebody flying is your thing, go to United. Way more opportunities there, maybe even as a new hire based on how their previous bids have gone. Generally Delta has been more profitable which shows up on profit sharing day each year (pandemic excluded). Looks like Delta is still on track to continuing to be the most profitable airline over the next few years. Up until about 3 years ago I'd say Delta had a better pilot/management relationship, but the company has really turned the screws trying to squeeze every last ounce of productivity out of the pilots. Domestically our trips are looking a lot more like regional airline trips used to look. Not sure how things are trending in that department over at United. As it stands now I'd say that it's pretty much a wash between the two until you figure in the WB opportunities at United, which would put them ahead. However, their global WB reserve rules are pretty crappy hence why those positions have gone unfilled recently.

The last X factor is the next contract that each airline signs. Who will be best able to fix their most glaring issues? No one can predict how that will turn out, so again I jump back to my first point which is domicile location vs where you want to live, because over the course of the 20-30 years you'll spend at either place, contracts, rules, good things, bad things, etc will all come and go, but your commute to work will stick with you the entire time.

Crapshoot either way. Both are great jobs, go to the one with the easiest commute. After that, go to the earlier class date.

You are on the right track with geography being a primary factor but you have to be more specific. NW - Delta for the SEA base. Bay area - UAL for the SFO base. SOCAL - could go either way. In any case until you have two CJOs I wouldn't worry about it - in any case its a good position to be in. Commuting can be done, I do it currently and its not too bad. Living in base does open up a lot more opportunities and generally improves QOL. B]

Good Luck!

Scoop

To add to this, UAL offers DEN, DL offers SLC. Both are short and long term considerations. Many pilots who move to or near a base still sometimes commute to other bases for periods of time. Contrary to the hyperbole, commuting isn't the all or nothing model the forums imply. Some commutes are way better than others and in some cases can be better overall than *some* "local" situations with massive drives to crappy early AM report/late release trips.

"West Coast" could mean a vast area beyond just the few city domiciles in question so its hard to give an answer even based just on that.

It seems like you will have a great choice either way though.

So after digging through the forums here I’m a little confused at the upgrade time at Delta?

I’m assuming bc Delta has so many aircraft it varies from aircraft to aircraft. I live in Atlanta, so I’m guessing to stay here I’d bid on a 717. I hit “upgrade” in the search and read through several threads, but I apologize if I missed it somewhere.

You are correct that upgrades vary significantly across fleets. Some NB Captains can't even WB FO.

Popular forum answer - 1 Year, because it happened one time for one upgrade. Pilots act like Upgrade Time is the same as Junior Pilot in a category. While technically correct on a unitary basis, it is not a reflection of a typical pilot's experience.

Captain upgrades at Delta are like a mission to Mars. With perfect alignment of the planets, it can be done in a year. If you are caught in a misalignment of the sun, moon and stars, you may be waiting several years. When the perfect opportunity presents itself and you miss by one, you may be stuck waiting a couple years for your next chance.

What you can expect if you commit to ATL NB is a few years til upgrade. NYC could happen a year or two sooner. DYODD, YMMV, see Sun, Moon and Stars alignment disclaimer above.

I'm one of those guys right on the planets aligned point.

2 years on property bid and awarded NYC 73N Captain. Would have been the 3rd or 4th most junior Captain at Delta and only one below me on the 737. The few junior to me were in my new hire class. Bid cancelled. Una, furlough letters, etc.

Return from UNA went back to 7ER FO.

Bid this fall, couldn't hold NYC 73NA but was awarded 320A. 5 or so below me on that.

Junior Captain is maybe a month (so 2 classes) junior to me on the 220.

Guys hired in March 2018 seem to be on the its just out of reach point.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

Fuel Planning
 

Curious across fleets what are the "I want to be on the ground with x,xxx lbs of fuel" numbers?

220
717
320/321
73N
757
767
330
765
350

Bonus: 777 and 747

A388 - 26,400lbs

Good gouge I heard for the ER was on the deck at your alternate (if you have one, otherwise your destination) with 7000, 9000, or 11,000 based on which variant you’re flying (757-200, 757-300, ER respectively). This incorporates a buffer.

Most 320 guys I've seen want 6.0 or around that. NYC airports add a bit more because....NYC.

Don't overthink it. Minimum fuel and emergency fuel are in the FOM. The FCTM has fuel for a go-around and approach. Your release has contingency fuel. That gives you all the info to calculate what you need. Having an additional buffer on top of that muddies the waters. Each flight is unique and requires you to be a pilot and apply your knowledge of the weather, airports, and ATC.

I've already seen some gouge numbers fall apart due to the new passenger weights. Kind of hard to tell dispatch to remove passengers because you arbitrarily decided you want 2,000 lbs more fuel even though the planned fuel load has a 45 min reserve and 20 min contingency fuel with numerous airports within 10 min flight time.

Planned/Min Fuel for Landing is on every Flight Plan. No need to memorize it.

I always try to land by 0.

That's a bad idea. You need to land with enough fuel to also taxi to the gate. Otherwise, you might get a phone call.

But did you die?

Just put it in neutral as you roll off the runway. The RAT has enough thrust to get you up the hill on the victor loop.

Check your mic, you're on guard.