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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

80ktsClamp 02-02-2011 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 940872)
Nothing more than we have already agreed it in the JPWA, LOA19 or any other agreement since CH11.

This is not a new scope sale, the company is just exercising its rights under the PWA.

The anger is the fact that the union types continue to have their head in the sand in barely even giving this lip service. It continues to be ignored as a goal to reel this junk in.

johnso29 02-02-2011 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 940847)
The hard limit is 255 70+ seat jets with the limit on 76 seat jets being not one over the limit of 153 as agreed to in the grievance settlement 09-01 until the mainline fleet total hull number passes 767. We are about 27 hulls away from that.

Johnso, simple CH11. Why it was not changed in the JPWA? No idea.

That's right. And the last contract when we were OUT of BK. So why the HECK is still in there??!!! :mad:

scambo1 02-02-2011 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 940862)
Think of it this way, if they fill up on 70-seat jets, it limits the number of 76 seat jets they can add before they hit 255.

With a projected 70/76 seat fleet of 235 aircraft (70 70-seat+12 70-seat on order (4 SKW, 8 RJET)+153 76-seat) the most they could add would be 20. Not good, but not Armageddon either, considering our mainline fleet would have to be above ~774 jets (46 more than today) to get there.

Also, the increase in MD-90s is not all growth, it will be off set by the retirement of DC-9s and older MD-88s.


Actually, since the RJs cant be reduced once added, my question was if they add the -90s before retiring the -9s how many RJs can they add - which would then not be reduceable?

Sink r8 02-02-2011 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 940886)
That's right. And the last contract when we were OUT of BK. So why the HECK is still in there??!!! :mad:

Because the single opportunity to address outstanding issues would have been for the DAL and NW pilots to agree on a SLI voluntarily, and hold it as leverage early on in the merger process. I'm not saying it could have been done, because the SLI piece is almost unsurmountable without arbitration. But once it became pretty obvious to management that we were really not going to stop this thing, and only wanted a payout, BUT could not work together, they gave us the existing contract, plus equity, and some raises, and we jumped on it. I'm not really interested in who is to blame, because, let's be honest: we probably could never have done a voluntary SLI in a split second, and jointly turned against management.

So there went our one significant post-bankruptcy chance of cleaning up the contract.

Are you really confused as to why we're still under a POS contract, or are you just venting?

1234 02-02-2011 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 940857)
I'm not a black helo guy really, but if we add in all the md-90's what does that bring us to at the mainline?

What does that allow as far as 76 seat jets?


To add to your question, what if, after bringing on the MD90's we quickly sign agreements for additional 76 seater DCI flying. Then, a couple months later we decide to park all of the DC9s. It is my understanding that this new, higher, limit on 76 seaters is the benchmark moving forward and that if we shrunk the mainline a/c numbers that DCI can continue to fly the additional 76 seaters. Is this true?

acl65pilot 02-02-2011 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by 1234 (Post 940889)
To add to your question, what if, after bringing on the MD90's we quickly sign agreements for additional 76 seater DCI flying. Then, a couple months later we decide to park all of the DC9s. It is my understanding that this new, higher, limit on 76 seaters is the benchmark moving forward and that if we shrunk the mainline a/c numbers that DCI can continue to fly the additional 76 seaters. Is this true?

Signing of the agreements does not matter. It would be the delivery of the jets. Remember that grievance settlement 09-01 that stated that the company will now go by our interpretation.

In an short answer, yes, if the company keeps all of the 9's adds the 49 confirmed 90's they can take delivery on a 3-1 ratio 76 seat jets to the allowable limit, then park the 9's with no consequence to the amount of 76 seat jets. This is not something new.

scambo1 02-02-2011 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 940891)
Signing of the agreements does not matter. It would be the delivery of the jets. Remember that grievance settlement 09-01 that stated that the company will now go by our interpretation.

In an short answer, yes, if the company keeps all of the 9's adds the 49 confirmed 90's they can take delivery on a 3-1 ratio 76 seat jets to the allowable limit, then park the 9's with no consequence to the amount of 76 seat jets. This is not something new.


So what I hear you saying is that:

The Vols are great.
Carl is reasonable.
ALPA is fallable

Columbia 02-02-2011 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 940870)
So bottom line, yet again more of our flying is being effectively transferred to DCI?

FWIW, a thread on the regional forum mentions Republic announced some significant hiring and upgrades.

Reroute 02-02-2011 02:24 PM


Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 940887)
Actually, since the RJs cant be reduced once added, my question was if they add the -90s before retiring the -9s how many RJs can they add - which would then not be reduceable?

The short answer is zero

Right now we're expecting about 30 MD-90s in the next 18 months. If all those jets are growth aircraft, with zero aircraft retirements and no other mainline aircraft arriving, the mainline fleet would be ~758. Still 9 short of what's required to add any additional 76-seat jets.

johnso29 02-02-2011 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 940888)
Because the single opportunity to address outstanding issues would have been for the DAL and NW pilots to agree on a SLI voluntarily, and hold it as leverage early on in the merger process. I'm not saying it could have been done, because the SLI piece is almost unsurmountable without arbitration. But once it became pretty obvious to management that we were really not going to stop this thing, and only wanted a payout, BUT could not work together, they gave us the existing contract, plus equity, and some raises, and we jumped on it. I'm not really interested in who is to blame, because, let's be honest: we probably could never have done a voluntary SLI in a split second, and jointly turned against management.

So there went our one significant post-bankruptcy chance of cleaning up the contract.

Are you really confused as to why we're still under a POS contract, or are you just venting?

The short answer is that I'm just venting. But I also conutinue to reiterate the point because I feel a frightening number of our pilots don't even know that clause is in our contract.


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