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Your dot connecting ability and a JD would be very marketable. :) |
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As for the paycut. I am guessing First Years will get about 110-120K and go to a performance based, not a billable based bonus system. Works well for those that are willing to work, not so well for those that like to just be on the winning team. Many first years for the top first will still pull 140K+. Problem is that they are not taking many in. These firms are fighting to survive. |
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But yet, universities churn out hundreds of new lawyers every year. One of my dad's favoriate sayings is, "there aren't enough doctors to support all the lawyers":D |
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It is definitely not a career field I would get in to at 40. Something that is good to have, and opens other doors. |
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Hang on to your wallet
Pilots Group to Pay $44 Million
WALL STREET JOURNAL January 21, 2010
With the window for appeals now passed, the settlement approved last month by a U.S. District Court judge in Chicago is final, said Myron Cherry, the lawyer. The United pilots objected to the way their local ALPA leadership council chose to split up a retirement payment in United's bankruptcy reorganization. Mr. Cherry said ALPA is expected to make payment within weeks. After legal fees and expenses, the 2,200 plaintiffs in the class-action complaint brought more than three years ago are expected to receive a total of $28 million. A spokeswoman for ALPA, which represents 50,000 commercial airline pilots, declined to comment. The settlement potentially is a serious blow to the union, which already is facing reduced dues income amid airline failures, furloughs and lower pilot pay rates. Although ALPA has a large insurance policy, its deductible is believed to be multiple millions of dollars, said one person familiar with the matter. On the other hand, if the plaintiffs had persuaded a jury to award them their claimed damages of $200 million, the union could have been bankrupted. ALPA had $100 million in net assets at the end of 2008, according to its most recent financial report filed with the Department of Labor. That was down from $132.1 million at the beginning of 2008. ALPA took in total receipts, including dues income, of $233.5 million that year, and it disbursed $238.1 million. Other airlines that sought protection from their creditors in recent years have terminated some of their employee pension plans without this sort of litigation. US Airways Group Inc. jettisoned all of its plans in two bankruptcy reorganizations. Delta Air Lines Inc., in bankruptcy, terminated its pilot pension plan. But it and Northwest Airlines Corp., which Delta acquired last year, successfully lobbied for changes in pension law so they could freeze but retain their existing plans and amortize their underfunding over multiple years. The crux of this dispute arose when United's parent UAL Corp. was in bankruptcy proceedings and said it couldn't afford to keep its four employee pension plans, which were underfunded by $9.8 billion. The plans ultimately were assumed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which now makes payments to United retirees. United and its employees agreed to new 401(k)-type pension plans and the airline gave the workers convertible notes to help make up for shortfalls they would experience when the PBGC took over the pension payments. ALPA and United agreed that the pilots would receive $550 million in convertible notes. The local union branch that represents United's then-6,600 active pilots debated how to allocate the proceeds from the sale of the notes and ultimately voted to use a method that would reward all the pilots. The plaintiffs contended that method provided a windfall to the airline's junior pilots, who were the majority and controlled the local union leadership, at the expense of the senior aviators. The junior pilots lost little or none of the benefits they had earned under the terminated plan. But the 2,200 senior pilots, who already had accrued sizeable benefits based on their higher incomes and longer years of service, had much money on the line. The suit claimed the union took more than $200 million from the plaintiffs for benefits they already had earned in their pension plan and gave it to junior pilots for benefits they hadn't earned, a breach of ALPA's duty of fair representation. The judge last July denied motions by ALPA and intervenor United for summary judgment in the case. Days before the dispute was set to go to a jury trial last October, ALPA agreed to settle, said Mr. Cherry, one of the plaintiffs' lawyers. While United intervened in the case, it isn't on the hook for any money. "There are no claims against United," the company said in a statement. John Mansfield Jr., a 27-year United pilot who retired in 2005, was the first named plaintiff in the lawsuit. He receives about $27,000 a year in retirement benefits from the PBGC, he said. Because of a law—now changed—that pilots must retire at age 60, their PBGC payments were reduced from what they would have gotten if they retired at 65. Before United jettisoned the pilot plan, Mr. Mansfield said he had expected to retire on as much as $80,000 a year. He thinks his part of the $28 million settlement will amount to about 12% to 13% of what he would have received in note proceeds had the union adopted what the senior pilots considered fair. He said that probably will be the case for the others in the class. Mr. Cherry, the attorney, said the payment formula will lead to varying results. A handful of the pilots will receive six-figure one-time payments, many are in line for payments of $25,000 to $35,000 and some will receive much less, he said. Mike Glawe, a former ALPA leader at United and still an active pilot, said the settlement "isn't going to reestablish anybody's retirement security." But he, another of the named plaintiffs, said it sends a message: "A political majority still has to fairly represent the interests of a political minority." Write to Susan Carey at [email protected] |
ouch! That's no fun. (internet)
ouch! That's not gonna be fun check to write! |
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The UAL MEC f#@^s up and we get to pay. I wonder which of those wonderful "outside consultants" advised the United pilots? Wouldn't be Athena, would it? Nah. Can't be. |
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You know they are going to raise our dues under the guise of "we've kept the (dues)percentage down so long that we are just doing a long overdue adjustment". Of course, with increased dues would that get us more durable sand to draw the line in for scope protections?:rolleyes:
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I'm gonna be TICKED if that turns into an assessment on us. |
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$44 mil is nearly half of ALPA's capital. Depending on insurance, it could wipe out the Major Contingency Fund. Heads should roll in Herndon. |
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So the award is for $44 Million, but after the lawyers take their cut, there will be $28 Million left over? Just goes to prove that only real winners in these things are the lawyers. Having lost my Defined Benefit retirement in bankruptcy as well, I can somewhat sympathize, but using my dues to mitigate someone else's losses just doesn't sit right. |
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Ya know Lee has been stating that we are only spending half our budget every year. Maybe he and the boys saw this coming. |
Looks like some just got their retirement back!
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I don't remember. When UAL's pension was terminated did the pilot group vote on it or was it just agreed to by the UALPA leaders and UAL?
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I love trivia, so come on and give it up. What was the answer to the flaws in your and Nwa-n's arguments? I guessed that you have a causation problem because of intervening and/ or superceding forces. |
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C&R #3 is the classic "no bump, no flush" language. There's a long history of what that clause means in seniority integration battles. The phrase "in and of itself" referring to the single list is where the problem comes in regarding displacements that result from management moving jets to new bases. The NWA "ninja" claim is ridiculous on its face. How can 777s be called "replacement jets" for 747-400s that never left the fleet? Its astounding to me that the NWA members on the DRC would vote to uphold that frivolous claim. My suspicion is that this is the first claim and they just wanted to establish some "street cred" among the former NWA pilot group so they went ahead and forced it to arbitration. Even though they know it is doomed. |
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We all thought they were going to end in 2006 when the Roberts award dropped dead and they kept going... then, they went after the young guys who saved their pensions, for more and more and more... In a perfect world, we would only get another 5 years of food fights, but then again, they didn't stop when the Roberts award dropped. We welcome you to our dysfunctional nwa family! Don't worry, the majority of us are normal average guys with a positive outlook in life, they are now outnumbered by a lot, and they don't have the Ice Palace in MSP protecting them anymore. |
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Sounds like a good time to start our own DAPA. 1% dues, and none of our dues to support non-DAL issues! |
Airport officials: Plane circling Lansing is part of training exercise | lansingstatejournal.com | Lansing State Journal
Looks like our training runs on the 767 have been skurring the fine folks of LAN. Those dang rookie pilots learning how to avoid buildings! (look at the comments and prepare to lose all hope for the future of america) |
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Yes, it's about time that we take care of DAL pilots and ONLY DAL pilots... flush the ALPA national toilet. |
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As these deals arise they can divide our new "marriage" or they can make it down right miserable. The choice is ours. |
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I have an outrageous sense of humor and some of those posts were certainly outrageous.:D:eek::D |
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So, the award begs this question, will junior pilots who lost their pension while senior pilots, who controlled the mec kept theirs, have the same suit filed?
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Maybe the UAUA MEC should pay for this. |
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