Originally Posted by NuGuy

Heyas T,

Not digging at ya, but there seems to be an overriding generalization by guys that the only way to do things is the one way, and even the way that other airlines do things, despite being successful at it, can't possibly work because of the way the some guys have to squeeze it into THEIR experience, rather than the experience of the people who actually used BOTH systems.

We've already been through this with a number of topics, where once it's explained the way things REALLY worked, the same guys go "huh, yea, I guess that would work pretty well." Some of those topics already discussed include the APA process for bidding, paperwork, and now we get to do it for seniority list instructors.

Certainly, after all the things we gave up in BK, somehow the requirement to use seniority list instructors anytime the motion was on was considered pretty important by the fNWA guys, because we kept it in the contract.

Anyway, enough of that rant. Here's how instructors worked at NWA, with no judgment on other systems:

1) It was a combined department. Training/checking. You might just do OE, or just Sims (which included training, and doing MVs, LOEs, etc), line checks, or all of the above. APDs also did training, and ordinary events along with type rides.

Because it was a combined department, there was a VERY tight feedback loop between the line and training. OE was a complete NON event. There was ZERO "you'll get that on OE". The way you flew the airplane was identical to the way you flew the sim. There were no fiefdoms because there weren't any "fiefs".

There was ZERO variation between instructors. The way you learned things was identical from IP to IP, and from sim to OE.

2) You could only become an instructor for an aircraft that you currently held. If you got displaced, you lost your instructor gig, too. If you got a bid for a new airplane, you lost your instructor gig. You were free to sign up for your new airplane, but no guarantees.

3) You were a line pilot who instructed, NOT an instructor who flew the line once in a while. IPs doing sims were expected to be "in the box" 6 months out of 12, but which 6 were up to the training department (they'd take your requests "under advisement"), but when things were slow, you might fly 8 months. More often you'd do 2 months in the sim and 2 on the line.

4) A regular month was 16 events. Max was 19. "Seat support" counted as an event. Two events a day had restrictions. Events 17,18, and 19 were "overtime" and paid %150.

5) Pay was the max for the month, obviously for the airplane you held, with a $600 override. Hotels were provided, as was PS to work.

Last I heard, SLIPs were worth 350-500 pilots in staffing.

NU

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

The net change is more like 100-125. Not arguing with the concept, but your numbers are wrong. You only count manning changes for pilots that are actually in the sim for the month. If he is out on the line he is just another pilot. Just think if we had 450-550 pilots off the line in any one month. We don't have that many sims.

Originally Posted by Fly4hire

Any intel on when the AE will be out?

Originally Posted by JABDIP

Almost Nobody from MSP went to ATL, imagine that. A few 747-400 displacements from the 330A bid. ATL 330A went into low 2500s. 16 744A early outs as of now 30 330a early outs as of now. AE out by noon.

Originally Posted by Fly4hire

How about waterfall of Mid/Senior MD/VD FO's to ATL and NYC?

Originally Posted by JABDIP

Almost Nobody from MSP went to ATL, imagine that. A few 747-400 displacements from the 330A bid. ATL 330A went into low 2500s. 16 744A early outs as of now 30 330a early outs as of now. AE out by noon.

Originally Posted by JABDIP

Almost Nobody from MSP went to ATL, imagine that. A few 747-400 displacements from the 330A bid. ATL 330A went into low 2500s. 16 744A early outs as of now 30 330a early outs as of now. AE out by noon.