Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-26-2011 | 04:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Corporate Pilot
Heres a question I've always wondered about. Forgive my knowledge on this as most of my experience has been part 91 with a little 121 mixed in. I've always wondered do the fuel savings on newer, more fuel efficient aircraft offset the cost of running less fuel efficient aircraft that are paid for. I'm assuming that over time that it would.
Just made me wonder with the talks on here about aircraft orders
Thx
Just made me wonder with the talks on here about aircraft orders
Thx
06-26-2011 | 04:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
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You can have the greatest wizz bang 1 meter accuracy RNP system, but you can only squeeze so many airplanes onto a piece of concrete.
On departures you need at roughly 2 miles separation (at least in practice), and with 757/heavies, it's 5 miles. Ever wonder why the line creeps aloing in ATL, but not in DTW? Proportion of 757/heavies in the mix is far greater in ATL.
On landing, the minimum separation, in practice, is 3 miles. You need just so much time to land and clear the runway.
RNP isn't going to fix that, ever.
Even when a simple re-arranging of airspace would greatly improve traffic flow, places like Long Island have the poltiical power to stop it.
RNP isn't going to fix that, either.
Instead, we chase the RNP boondoggle because that money is out of sight, out of mind and we can spread the pain to the operators, as well.
Actually paying for land and having the bulldozers in plain sight building new runways is way more politically toxic.
Agree on your second point, though.
Nu
06-26-2011 | 05:10 PM
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From: DAL 330
Heres a question I've always wondered about. Forgive my knowledge on this as most of my experience has been part 91 with a little 121 mixed in. I've always wondered do the fuel savings on newer, more fuel efficient aircraft offset the cost of running less fuel efficient aircraft that are paid for. I'm assuming that over time that it would.
Just made me wonder with the talks on here about aircraft orders
Thx
Just made me wonder with the talks on here about aircraft orders
Thx
It depends on many factors - the most important being is "What result does management desire at that particular moment?" Once management decides what it would like the end result to be, just fine tune the inputs, duration, assumptions etc, and wala! They have numbers to back them up - magic!
Even if management actually wanted an unbiased answer, it would still driven by subjective assumptions. For example - what will fuel cost next month, next year, or over the life of the aircraft? What is the duration you are looking at etc.
Scoop
06-26-2011 | 05:29 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
I'm going to quote above your post due to using the iPhone.
First I agree!
Second the 717 is great for a lot of things and it's too bad Boeing suffocated it. That said the SWA insiders who don't want the 717 and said recently that SWA management in roadshows was saying the 717 would be released are now saying that it's staying. Whether that's because SWA wants the 717 or any deal to get rid it of it isn't worth it or Delta doesn't like the numbers for now we won't know. But SWA management mentioned the 717 sim will be headed to Dallas.
After a hellacious weekend of nonreving I think I see the beauty of the 88 for sure now. We need seats. 319s, 73-7s and 9s just don't cut it. They have their place but what is needed is cheap airplanes with lots of seats IMHO to absorb irops.
I'm not convinced fuel efficiency is that big of a deal if 150 seater can be had cheap, in the case of allegiant for $4-$5M for line ready birds, versus a horribly expensive smaller first year model high efficiency jet. Want fuel efficiency then let's talk props.
I say buy used Airbuses and 80s until your house is in order.
Maybe I'm jaded about new planes but I can tell you after looking through the sales numbers of a large multi store car dealership I can say the money wasn't in new cars but the $10,000 range used cars. The ones you can buy for $3k and sell for $9.9k versus the high price used or new cars where the margins were under $2.5k and you lived off maintenance and finance & interest income and manufacturer coupons. Dealers love the margins of their used lots.
First I agree!
Second the 717 is great for a lot of things and it's too bad Boeing suffocated it. That said the SWA insiders who don't want the 717 and said recently that SWA management in roadshows was saying the 717 would be released are now saying that it's staying. Whether that's because SWA wants the 717 or any deal to get rid it of it isn't worth it or Delta doesn't like the numbers for now we won't know. But SWA management mentioned the 717 sim will be headed to Dallas.
After a hellacious weekend of nonreving I think I see the beauty of the 88 for sure now. We need seats. 319s, 73-7s and 9s just don't cut it. They have their place but what is needed is cheap airplanes with lots of seats IMHO to absorb irops.
I'm not convinced fuel efficiency is that big of a deal if 150 seater can be had cheap, in the case of allegiant for $4-$5M for line ready birds, versus a horribly expensive smaller first year model high efficiency jet. Want fuel efficiency then let's talk props.
I say buy used Airbuses and 80s until your house is in order.
Maybe I'm jaded about new planes but I can tell you after looking through the sales numbers of a large multi store car dealership I can say the money wasn't in new cars but the $10,000 range used cars. The ones you can buy for $3k and sell for $9.9k versus the high price used or new cars where the margins were under $2.5k and you lived off maintenance and finance & interest income and manufacturer coupons. Dealers love the margins of their used lots.
Wow FTB, I agree completely with every word of your post...including the used cars - having been a used car dealer, I can tell you they are money generators.
I think also, the next step for DAL Mgmt is to announce the purchase of every 717 produced for cheap. Gotta work out something with those rolls royce guys, I've got a few connections there, but noone's asking me. Power by the hour worked for the harrier guys.
06-26-2011 | 05:43 PM
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From: Light Chop
Wow FTB, I agree completely with every word of your post...including the used cars - having been a used car dealer, I can tell you they are money generators.
I think also, the next step for DAL Mgmt is to announce the purchase of every 717 produced for cheap. Gotta work out something with those rolls royce guys, I've got a few connections there, but noone's asking me. Power by the hour worked for the harrier guys.
I think also, the next step for DAL Mgmt is to announce the purchase of every 717 produced for cheap. Gotta work out something with those rolls royce guys, I've got a few connections there, but noone's asking me. Power by the hour worked for the harrier guys.
06-26-2011 | 05:58 PM
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From: Light Chop
Heyas Nu,
If you can stomach "Made in China" what you describe exists.
Built on the tooling ships 965 and 964 were built on, here's everything you wanted plus glass.
RNP is part of NexGen ATC and you won't be able to fly an airliner without RNP in just a few years, thus the cockpit upgrades in the pipe for the Maddogs.
And now I present
DC-9-30 with Russian wing RJ-motors and a new front window
Avic ARJ21
Personally, I'd prefer the US-made 717....
Cheers
George
If you can stomach "Made in China" what you describe exists.
Built on the tooling ships 965 and 964 were built on, here's everything you wanted plus glass.
RNP is part of NexGen ATC and you won't be able to fly an airliner without RNP in just a few years, thus the cockpit upgrades in the pipe for the Maddogs.
And now I present
DC-9-30 with Russian wing RJ-motors and a new front window
Avic ARJ21
Personally, I'd prefer the US-made 717....
Cheers
George
If I remember right AirTran begged Boeing to increase the range on the 717 or make it larger or something and Boeing said absolutely... it's called a 737-800 and here ya go. AirTran said okay, we'll wet lease A320s. Then a compromise was made and here came 737s.
06-26-2011 | 06:04 PM
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From: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
06-26-2011 | 07:00 PM
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From: Light Chop
06-26-2011 | 07:03 PM
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From: Light Chop
Speaking of the AMR 80s, was it just conspiracy theorist at work or was there anything to the idea that the MD80s were being replaced by new 738s so as to help drive up the operating costs and therein at some point enter chapter 11 and get back on a level playing field with the other legacies?
If true it lends to Scoops comments, what does management want to accomplish determines the ideal aircraft to operate and/or order.
If true it lends to Scoops comments, what does management want to accomplish determines the ideal aircraft to operate and/or order.
06-26-2011 | 09:01 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I'd be happy to see them here, in fact, I'd hit it ... just pointing out the similarities with another nutball project born in 1986, Lindsey Lohan.
(2) Both smoke
(3) Both make noise when they really should be quiet
(4) Both have legal restrictions which limit how high they are supposed to get
(5) Neither does math very quickly
(6) Both are unpredictable when you take them out in public & neither follows commands well
(7) Both get droopy when not powered up
(8) Both leak inappropriately
(9) Both show up in sequels
(10) Both drink waaay too much
Bonus (11) When either tries to stop, they get the shakes
Bonus 2 (12) Both are frequently driven by people on probation
Bonus 3 (13) The MD88 makes a lot of SkyMiles, Lindsey makes lots of Marlboro miles
Bonus 4 (14) Both do a pretty good job, but getting there involves too much drama
Latest and Greatest
Late Show
TOP TEN
(1) Both started out cute, but got stretchedLate Show
TOP TEN
(2) Both smoke
(3) Both make noise when they really should be quiet
(4) Both have legal restrictions which limit how high they are supposed to get
(5) Neither does math very quickly
(6) Both are unpredictable when you take them out in public & neither follows commands well
(7) Both get droopy when not powered up
(8) Both leak inappropriately
(9) Both show up in sequels
(10) Both drink waaay too much
Bonus (11) When either tries to stop, they get the shakes
Bonus 2 (12) Both are frequently driven by people on probation
Bonus 3 (13) The MD88 makes a lot of SkyMiles, Lindsey makes lots of Marlboro miles
Bonus 4 (14) Both do a pretty good job, but getting there involves too much drama
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 06-26-2011 at 10:21 PM.
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