Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-26-2011 | 11:47 AM
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Heyas FtB,
Replacement 100 seaters do NOT have to be expensive.
Take a DC-9...maybe with a new wing with better high altitude performance / more fuel. The airfame structure itself is PROVEN by 50 years experience.
Normal cabin and cargo capacity.
Simplify the systems a bit. The 717 would be a good model for this.
Where you can, have STONE SIMPLE systems with good dispatch redundancy. Anyone who's ever turned a wrench on a DC-9 or 737 should be able to fix it.
What you don't need is a MD-11 cockpit. Two IRUs, two comms, a simple FMS with BASIC RNAV capability (no need for RNP in the states). Think of something along the lines of a F-100.
No fly by wire. No hydraulic powered flight controls. No complicated engines. Roll it down hill, let the clutch out, and off you go. You should be able to practically pull start the engines.
Nu
Replacement 100 seaters do NOT have to be expensive.
Take a DC-9...maybe with a new wing with better high altitude performance / more fuel. The airfame structure itself is PROVEN by 50 years experience.
Normal cabin and cargo capacity.
Simplify the systems a bit. The 717 would be a good model for this.
Where you can, have STONE SIMPLE systems with good dispatch redundancy. Anyone who's ever turned a wrench on a DC-9 or 737 should be able to fix it.
What you don't need is a MD-11 cockpit. Two IRUs, two comms, a simple FMS with BASIC RNAV capability (no need for RNP in the states). Think of something along the lines of a F-100.
No fly by wire. No hydraulic powered flight controls. No complicated engines. Roll it down hill, let the clutch out, and off you go. You should be able to practically pull start the engines.
Nu
06-26-2011 | 12:07 PM
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I don't believe are Boeing contract allowed us to resell a unconfirmed position. What we did do however is resell a bunch (30 Plus) 737-800's after purchasing them. The planes went from the production line to the new airline without Delta ever flying them however we technically took delivery and then sold the aircraft.
06-26-2011 | 12:16 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
06-26-2011 | 12:21 PM
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From: Left, left, left right left....
06-26-2011 | 12:31 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
06-26-2011 | 01:55 PM
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From: 767er Captain
Wow.... really? OK.. for $60/hour... the left seat is yours. Wanna rethink that "sexy" comment? Personally I find nothing about a bunch of designers engineering me into an airplane as a redundant system as being "sexy". Yup.. Boeing guy here... always have been... and God (And Delta Air Lines) willing, always will be.
06-26-2011 | 01:57 PM
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From: 767er Captain
06-26-2011 | 02:13 PM
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From: Light Chop
I'm going to quote above your post due to using the iPhone.
First I agree!
Second the 717 is great for a lot of things and it's too bad Boeing suffocated it. That said the SWA insiders who don't want the 717 and said recently that SWA management in roadshows was saying the 717 would be released are now saying that it's staying. Whether that's because SWA wants the 717 or any deal to get rid it of it isn't worth it or Delta doesn't like the numbers for now we won't know. But SWA management mentioned the 717 sim will be headed to Dallas.
After a hellacious weekend of nonreving I think I see the beauty of the 88 for sure now. We need seats. 319s, 73-7s and 9s just don't cut it. They have their place but what is needed is cheap airplanes with lots of seats IMHO to absorb irops.
I'm not convinced fuel efficiency is that big of a deal if 150 seater can be had cheap, in the case of allegiant for $4-$5M for line ready birds, versus a horribly expensive smaller first year model high efficiency jet. Want fuel efficiency then let's talk props.
I say buy used Airbuses and 80s until your house is in order.
Maybe I'm jaded about new planes but I can tell you after looking through the sales numbers of a large multi store car dealership I can say the money wasn't in new cars but the $10,000 range used cars. The ones you can buy for $3k and sell for $9.9k versus the high price used or new cars where the margins were under $2.5k and you lived off maintenance and finance & interest income and manufacturer coupons. Dealers love the margins of their used lots.
First I agree!
Second the 717 is great for a lot of things and it's too bad Boeing suffocated it. That said the SWA insiders who don't want the 717 and said recently that SWA management in roadshows was saying the 717 would be released are now saying that it's staying. Whether that's because SWA wants the 717 or any deal to get rid it of it isn't worth it or Delta doesn't like the numbers for now we won't know. But SWA management mentioned the 717 sim will be headed to Dallas.
After a hellacious weekend of nonreving I think I see the beauty of the 88 for sure now. We need seats. 319s, 73-7s and 9s just don't cut it. They have their place but what is needed is cheap airplanes with lots of seats IMHO to absorb irops.
I'm not convinced fuel efficiency is that big of a deal if 150 seater can be had cheap, in the case of allegiant for $4-$5M for line ready birds, versus a horribly expensive smaller first year model high efficiency jet. Want fuel efficiency then let's talk props.
I say buy used Airbuses and 80s until your house is in order.
Maybe I'm jaded about new planes but I can tell you after looking through the sales numbers of a large multi store car dealership I can say the money wasn't in new cars but the $10,000 range used cars. The ones you can buy for $3k and sell for $9.9k versus the high price used or new cars where the margins were under $2.5k and you lived off maintenance and finance & interest income and manufacturer coupons. Dealers love the margins of their used lots.
Heyas FtB,
Replacement 100 seaters do NOT have to be expensive.
Take a DC-9...maybe with a new wing with better high altitude performance / more fuel. The airfame structure itself is PROVEN by 50 years experience.
Normal cabin and cargo capacity.
Simplify the systems a bit. The 717 would be a good model for this.
Where you can, have STONE SIMPLE systems with good dispatch redundancy. Anyone who's ever turned a wrench on a DC-9 or 737 should be able to fix it.
What you don't need is a MD-11 cockpit. Two IRUs, two comms, a simple FMS with BASIC RNAV capability (no need for RNP in the states). Think of something along the lines of a F-100.
No fly by wire. No hydraulic powered flight controls. No complicated engines. Roll it down hill, let the clutch out, and off you go. You should be able to practically pull start the engines.
Nu
Replacement 100 seaters do NOT have to be expensive.
Take a DC-9...maybe with a new wing with better high altitude performance / more fuel. The airfame structure itself is PROVEN by 50 years experience.
Normal cabin and cargo capacity.
Simplify the systems a bit. The 717 would be a good model for this.
Where you can, have STONE SIMPLE systems with good dispatch redundancy. Anyone who's ever turned a wrench on a DC-9 or 737 should be able to fix it.
What you don't need is a MD-11 cockpit. Two IRUs, two comms, a simple FMS with BASIC RNAV capability (no need for RNP in the states). Think of something along the lines of a F-100.
No fly by wire. No hydraulic powered flight controls. No complicated engines. Roll it down hill, let the clutch out, and off you go. You should be able to practically pull start the engines.
Nu
Last edited by forgot to bid; 06-26-2011 at 02:32 PM.
06-26-2011 | 02:21 PM
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From: Light Chop
Btw, when it comes to aircraft orders one thing I'll never forget was post 9/11 was that CAL, lessee of lots and lots of new shinny jets, was all of a sudden no different than a suddenly underemployed person who had maxed out their credit cards, home mortgage and car leases.
I remember CAL people lamenting as Gordon Bethune ran around proclaiming CAL would fire/furlough 10,000 people immediately that while the NWA DC9s were old at least they were paid for.
Btw, why aren't we talking E190s again? Seems like with Airbus ramping up this neo program and the cseries gaining some steam that maybe it's time to buy used or cheap 190s.
I remember CAL people lamenting as Gordon Bethune ran around proclaiming CAL would fire/furlough 10,000 people immediately that while the NWA DC9s were old at least they were paid for.
Btw, why aren't we talking E190s again? Seems like with Airbus ramping up this neo program and the cseries gaining some steam that maybe it's time to buy used or cheap 190s.
06-26-2011 | 03:53 PM
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Heyas FtB,
Replacement 100 seaters do NOT have to be expensive.
Take a DC-9...maybe with a new wing with better high altitude performance / more fuel. The airfame structure itself is PROVEN by 50 years experience.
Normal cabin and cargo capacity.
Simplify the systems a bit. The 717 would be a good model for this.
Where you can, have STONE SIMPLE systems with good dispatch redundancy. Anyone who's ever turned a wrench on a DC-9 or 737 should be able to fix it.
What you don't need is a MD-11 cockpit. Two IRUs, two comms, a simple FMS with BASIC RNAV capability (no need for RNP in the states). Think of something along the lines of a F-100.
No fly by wire. No hydraulic powered flight controls. No complicated engines. Roll it down hill, let the clutch out, and off you go. You should be able to practically pull start the engines.
Nu
Replacement 100 seaters do NOT have to be expensive.
Take a DC-9...maybe with a new wing with better high altitude performance / more fuel. The airfame structure itself is PROVEN by 50 years experience.
Normal cabin and cargo capacity.
Simplify the systems a bit. The 717 would be a good model for this.
Where you can, have STONE SIMPLE systems with good dispatch redundancy. Anyone who's ever turned a wrench on a DC-9 or 737 should be able to fix it.
What you don't need is a MD-11 cockpit. Two IRUs, two comms, a simple FMS with BASIC RNAV capability (no need for RNP in the states). Think of something along the lines of a F-100.
No fly by wire. No hydraulic powered flight controls. No complicated engines. Roll it down hill, let the clutch out, and off you go. You should be able to practically pull start the engines.
Nu
If you can stomach "Made in China" what you describe exists.
Built on the tooling ships 965 and 964 were built on, here's everything you wanted plus glass.
RNP is part of NexGen ATC and you won't be able to fly an airliner without RNP in just a few years, thus the cockpit upgrades in the pipe for the Maddogs.
And now I present
DC-9-30 with Russian wing RJ-motors and a new front window
Avic ARJ21
Personally, I'd prefer the US-made 717....
Cheers
George
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