Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Closed Thread Subscribe

Page 7010 of 20174

7010

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

07-07-2011 | 06:41 PM

#70091

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

Bill, our DC plan costs DAL more money on an annual basis than the DB ever did. Because the DB took advantage of market returns which ultimately resulted in minimal required contributions. Once those market returns dried up, they terminated the pension. It was destined to fail, but few realized it. The lump sum provision and run on the bank by the senior guys just guaranteed it.

Total BS. NWA pensions were the same as Delta's except for one thing. NWA pilots pension didn't have the lump sum option. The same drying up of market returns happened to the NWA pension, yet we were able to save ours due to the freeze. When the senior Delta guys took most of the money out at once due to their lump sum rights...THAT'S what ruined the pension.

Carl

07-07-2011 | 06:43 PM

#70092

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

I'm curious- The market had gone through a crappy time many times in the past... how did the DB survive then?

Exactly correct. NWA's survived with a freeze. Delta's couldn't because of the lump sum choice for those over 50. NWA's pension didn't have that option.

Carl

07-07-2011 | 06:43 PM

#70093

forgot to bid

veut gagner à la loterie

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 23,286

Likes: 0

From: Light Chop

The economy went gangbusters from 03 to 07, this industry was starting a recession in 00 and depression from 01 on. We never got to enjoy the good times because once we were in position 08 happened.

The industry is cursed.

As to CEOs, we have a product, seats and we have a seat inventory. Selling units is selling units and they all have fixed and variable costs, debts and interest and people sometimes in unions sometimes not. We should count ourselves lucky if you have a person who likes aviation verses who was it Ron Allen or Leo that hated pilots with a passion?

I have to be honest, I'm happy our marketing campaign includes airplanes and employees, when I was younger commercials and airports were aircraft focused but for years now it's been these abstract artsy fartsy ads like good goes around or even SWA bag ads and shots of swa employees dancing in downtown that try to ignore the product- air transportation.

07-07-2011 | 06:47 PM

#70094

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvr350

Buck et al., thank you for the discussion about C2K. Most of us at the bottom of the seniority list aren't around when C2K was negotiated. It obviously seemed to me that there were flaws in C2K, and the apex economic condition that was on the edge of downturn proved fatal to a company that made lots of money, but also spent even more money.

It seems to me the "old" DALPA made the most out of it (sans scope) during that negotiation, and the "new" DALPA is trying to be more prudent, telling us that "We know more than you know, but we can't tell you, so just trust us in leading the way". Either way is not what I want.

History is doomed to repeat itself if we don't learn from it.

You're far more apt to be doomed by believing BS. C2K pilot pay did not bankrupt anybody. 9-11 did.

Carl

07-07-2011 | 06:49 PM

#70095

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

I don't necessarily mind the approach, I mind the results especially when it comes to scope.

RJ's are not good for Delta and they're not good for us and they're not good for DALPA. There only good if you're running for President of ALPA.

See the kid flying the ASA jet and saying good bye to all of the passengers with a I LOVE SWA lanyard as one example.

You done broke the code!

Carl

07-07-2011 | 06:55 PM

#70096

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Carl,

Your numbers are way off. In fact, the economic effects of the 9/11 attacks were relatively benign and less than initially anticipated.

It's hard to discuss this when there is so much evidence to the contrary. 2 trillion were conservative estimates at the time. The world economies are still suffering from it because of the continuing need to defend against an ever evolving terrorist enemy. The increased costs of security adds nothing to the productivity and innovation of the world economy. It just continues to take, and take.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

The 2008 financial crises was much worse from an economic standpoint and Delta furloughed no one.

Totally disagree. 9-11 was FAR worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

I believe Delta would have likely declared bankruptcy with, or without C2K. Other factors, like over paying for regional airlines, the Comair strike and profligate spending in other areas assured the outcome.

I believe that's right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

My only contention is that the language of C2K was ill considered and we should not accept status quo in C2012. Section 1 needs to get tossed in favor of inclusive language which defines ALL new flying as ours giving us automatic ownership over any new code share and which recovers outsourced flying as contracts expire.

Totally agree.

Carl

07-07-2011 | 06:57 PM

#70097

FIIGMO

Sho me da money!

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 947

Likes: 0

From: B25, Left

Carl: Retirement buyout...

Carl,

I am not even sure of your seniority, but did you consider the buyout as proposed recently with our company? With your frozen pension the extra buyout etc.... was it something you considered? Do you want to do anything else or would you like to stay here?

Would a more lucrative buyout get you to go?

I ask for a simple reason.... How much longer do you want to do this? I sense a lot of discontent, it in no way is meant to convey you are not dedicated ( my personal guess is you are disillusioned with the profession like us all) but I am curious where your barometer fell or rose in reference to a buy out...

Just curious...

07-07-2011 | 06:59 PM

#70098

Phuz

Kerbal Rocket Surgeon

Joined: Dec 2007

Posts: 1,099

Likes: 0

From: DTW 717A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You're far more apt to be doomed by believing BS. C2K pilot pay did not bankrupt anybody. 9-11 did.

Carl

What is it like being the only smart guy on the internet?

And, why are you still paying part of every Frontier customer's fare?

07-07-2011 | 07:06 PM

#70099

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

But he is not correct. Leo Mullin used that line in response to Charles Giambusso.

His statement is akin to my stating Jennifer Anniston is in my bedroom, but, it is not Ms. Anniston, but it is a woman.

You're totally missing Tom's point. I've bolded it below for you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomgoodman

Management always blames pilots if the pay scale becomes "unaffordable", but when they were making huge profits under the concessionary '96 agreement, Ron Allen declared: "A contract is a contract." They largely provoked the C2K reaction.

That is unarguably correct. I don't know if it was Ron Allen or Leo Mullin because I was at NWA at the time. You weren't here either. Tom was. Might have been both guys, because "a contract is a contract" wasn't invented by either one of them.

The one certainty, is management blaming pilot salary. The other much newer certainty, is the number of young pilots who parrot this nonsense.

Carl