Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-08-2009, 09:47 AM
#7981
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by slowplay
It is strange to feel pity for an anonymous pseudonym, but I do. Maybe you can take on the special olympics next as another famous politician recently did, I suggest that you do so after you cure your lack of education on the subject (scope and "lisps"). 
That answers anything how? You are a true politician...lots of words that say nothing.
And yes with his condescending tone the entire time... him having to say "76" over and over again with a lisp got funnier each time.
06-08-2009, 09:50 AM
#7982
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
acl65 is correct. All we're seeing on here is the same overtones of "I know better than you so shut up and accept it" time and again.
06-08-2009, 10:03 AM
#7983
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by Tomcat
Hey Slowplay,
just for the sake of mutual respect, will you answer your own questions for me? Thanks in advance. Hope you're having a great day!
Respectfully,
TC
just for the sake of mutual respect, will you answer your own questions for me? Thanks in advance. Hope you're having a great day!
Respectfully,
TC
ACL is correct. I could point to the millions spent from the MCF, the press releases, the picketing events, the rallies, the discussions at the Executive Board and Executive Council, etc... You state that you think the Association should have "issued a statement." That was done.
Was any of it effective? You be the judge. Schnaedorf and the Midwest MEC set the direction. Prater and Donatelli's SPSC helped carry out that direction. Independence plus.
Let's be clear here. Midwest was a failing enterprise during a time when airlines its size failed. Aloha, SkyBus, ATA and a bunch of others are no longer operating. Frontier has been in bankruptcy. The same thing that happened to Midwest happened to their feeder Skyway, replaced by a lower cost bidder. MD80 and others like him want to forget that point, then yell for a lifeline from the Delta MEC. Delta inherited the minority ownership position of Midwest during the merger with NWA. Note that NWA had not placed any Midwest pilots (or Champion pilots) on their seniority list, nor operated any of their equipment. Yet somehow their plight is the fault of either ALPA or the Delta MEC...
2. What are you doing to make up for our lack of action, as your union doesn't speak for you?
I don't recall a single resolution from any LEC directing any MEC action on the Midwest issue. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, it's just that I don't recall seeing it.
If you believe that a directional change is needed, you must get involved within the process. There are currently 25 voting elected representatives (soon to drop to 21 with the closing of ANC and parking 742's). They come from every demographic. Your FO rep was furloughed for a long time. Your S/T was a SkyWest organizer that was sued by management. If you've got questions on how to be effective in making change, talk to them. They work for you. The MEC is composed of very diverse background from Delta, NWA, Republic, TWA, RJ and commuter airlines, civilian and military pilots. They elect the MEC Chairman, and the MEC administration works for them.
If this forum truly represents a "groundswell," then use it to advance your point of view. You're correct that this place can be somewhat useful to examine ideas. It's unfortunate, however, that those that throw stones (and I'm not including you in this statement) can't take it when they're thrown back. I'm happy to have a discussion based on facts. I won't even be surprised if we disagree, as our experiences and filters provide different outcomes based on that same set of facts. I will not, though, allow history to be rewritten by those that haven't even been in the game, those who assert things that aren't true, and those that divide for personal or corporate purposes.
And, of course, my opinion is worth what you paid for it on this anonymous webboard!
06-08-2009, 10:07 AM
#7984
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
acl65 is correct. All we're seeing on here is the same overtones of "I know better than you so shut up and accept it" time and again.
Personal or professional?
It's not flattering to you. And if you didn't get the Special Olympics reference, maybe you ought to watch the news once in a while. It might help your lack of education.
06-08-2009, 10:19 AM
#7985
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by slowplay
1. What exactly should your union have done?
ACL is correct. I could point to the millions spent from the MCF, the press releases, the picketing events, the rallies, the discussions at the Executive Board and Executive Council, etc... You state that you think the Association should have "issued a statement." That was done.
Was any of it effective? You be the judge. Schnaedorf and the Midwest MEC set the direction. Prater and Donatelli's SPSC helped carry out that direction. Independence plus.
Let's be clear here. Midwest was a failing enterprise during a time when airlines its size failed. Aloha, SkyBus, ATA and a bunch of others are no longer operating. Frontier has been in bankruptcy. The same thing that happened to Midwest happened to their feeder Skyway, replaced by a lower cost bidder. MD80 and others like him want to forget that point, then yell for a lifeline from the Delta MEC. Delta inherited the minority ownership position of Midwest during the merger with NWA. Note that NWA had not placed any Midwest pilots (or Champion pilots) on their seniority list, nor operated any of their equipment. Yet somehow their plight is the fault of either ALPA or the Delta MEC...
2. What are you doing to make up for our lack of action, as your union doesn't speak for you?
I don't recall a single resolution from any LEC directing any MEC action on the Midwest issue. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, it's just that I don't recall seeing it.
If you believe that a directional change is needed, you must get involved within the process. There are currently 25 voting elected representatives (soon to drop to 21 with the closing of ANC and parking 742's). They come from every demographic. Your FO rep was furloughed for a long time. Your S/T was a SkyWest organizer that was sued by management. If you've got questions on how to be effective in making change, talk to them. They work for you. The MEC is composed of very diverse background from Delta, NWA, Republic, TWA, RJ and commuter airlines, civilian and military pilots. They elect the MEC Chairman, and the MEC administration works for them.
If this forum truly represents a "groundswell," then use it to advance your point of view. You're correct that this place can be somewhat useful to examine ideas. It's unfortunate, however, that those that throw stones (and I'm not including you in this statement) can't take it when they're thrown back. I'm happy to have a discussion based on facts. I won't even be surprised if we disagree, as our experiences and filters provide different outcomes based on that same set of facts. I will not, though, allow history to be rewritten by those that haven't even been in the game, those who assert things that aren't true, and those that divide for personal or corporate purposes.
And, of course, my opinion is worth what you paid for it on this anonymous webboard!
ACL is correct. I could point to the millions spent from the MCF, the press releases, the picketing events, the rallies, the discussions at the Executive Board and Executive Council, etc... You state that you think the Association should have "issued a statement." That was done.
Was any of it effective? You be the judge. Schnaedorf and the Midwest MEC set the direction. Prater and Donatelli's SPSC helped carry out that direction. Independence plus.
Let's be clear here. Midwest was a failing enterprise during a time when airlines its size failed. Aloha, SkyBus, ATA and a bunch of others are no longer operating. Frontier has been in bankruptcy. The same thing that happened to Midwest happened to their feeder Skyway, replaced by a lower cost bidder. MD80 and others like him want to forget that point, then yell for a lifeline from the Delta MEC. Delta inherited the minority ownership position of Midwest during the merger with NWA. Note that NWA had not placed any Midwest pilots (or Champion pilots) on their seniority list, nor operated any of their equipment. Yet somehow their plight is the fault of either ALPA or the Delta MEC...
2. What are you doing to make up for our lack of action, as your union doesn't speak for you?
I don't recall a single resolution from any LEC directing any MEC action on the Midwest issue. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, it's just that I don't recall seeing it.
If you believe that a directional change is needed, you must get involved within the process. There are currently 25 voting elected representatives (soon to drop to 21 with the closing of ANC and parking 742's). They come from every demographic. Your FO rep was furloughed for a long time. Your S/T was a SkyWest organizer that was sued by management. If you've got questions on how to be effective in making change, talk to them. They work for you. The MEC is composed of very diverse background from Delta, NWA, Republic, TWA, RJ and commuter airlines, civilian and military pilots. They elect the MEC Chairman, and the MEC administration works for them.
If this forum truly represents a "groundswell," then use it to advance your point of view. You're correct that this place can be somewhat useful to examine ideas. It's unfortunate, however, that those that throw stones (and I'm not including you in this statement) can't take it when they're thrown back. I'm happy to have a discussion based on facts. I won't even be surprised if we disagree, as our experiences and filters provide different outcomes based on that same set of facts. I will not, though, allow history to be rewritten by those that haven't even been in the game, those who assert things that aren't true, and those that divide for personal or corporate purposes.
And, of course, my opinion is worth what you paid for it on this anonymous webboard!
Slow, I cannot believe that you agree with me. WOW!
I think this is a good post. Keep these coming!
Thank you!
06-08-2009, 10:20 AM
#7986
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by slowplay
Nah, when the repeated part of your post is on "lisps" I see something else.
Personal or professional?
It's not flattering to you. And if you didn't get the Special Olympics reference, maybe you ought to watch the news once in a while. It might help your lack of education.
Personal or professional?
It's not flattering to you. And if you didn't get the Special Olympics reference, maybe you ought to watch the news once in a while. It might help your lack of education.
Out of curiosity- why would it require the LECs to direct the MEC to mention something on the MidEx deal? Their entire airline just got outsourced and we are codesharing with them. I'd say that's quite pertinent to the state of environment we are in.
FYI- that Frontier that you threw in the same category as MidEx is now making a profit.
06-08-2009, 10:29 AM
#7987
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I know that I am very concerned at the possible implications to a lax eye on the MEH deal.
We own 47% of that company. Yes, we divested the investment but that does not mean that we divested control. That is very different.
It is a great avenue to take work around to scope for a spin.
I may be dead wrong, but I am sure that the company attorneys have looked at this and found a loophole. I would sleep better if the union would at least say that they are closely monitoring this issue. Instead they have continually stated the fact that we have an LOA with the company on this issue. It just has the underpinnings of a real mess for this pilot group.
A concerned pilot.....
We own 47% of that company. Yes, we divested the investment but that does not mean that we divested control. That is very different.
It is a great avenue to take work around to scope for a spin.
I may be dead wrong, but I am sure that the company attorneys have looked at this and found a loophole. I would sleep better if the union would at least say that they are closely monitoring this issue. Instead they have continually stated the fact that we have an LOA with the company on this issue. It just has the underpinnings of a real mess for this pilot group.
A concerned pilot.....
06-08-2009, 10:39 AM
#7988
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I know that I am very concerned at the possible implications to a lax eye on the MEH deal.
We own 47% of that company. Yes, we divested the investment but that does not mean that we divested control. That is very different.
It is a great avenue to take work around to scope for a spin.
I may be dead wrong, but I am sure that the company attorneys have looked at this and found a loophole.
A concerned pilot.....
We own 47% of that company. Yes, we divested the investment but that does not mean that we divested control. That is very different.
It is a great avenue to take work around to scope for a spin.
I may be dead wrong, but I am sure that the company attorneys have looked at this and found a loophole.
A concerned pilot.....
Our scope has been tested several times of late. Because of it, we got a huge headstart on the USAirways hostile takeover. It was our scope that prevented the increase in EMB-175 gross weights. The grievance settlement laid out more clearly the numbers of allowed 76 seaters (ALPA's interpretation) and consequences if furloughs occur. A deal structured like UAL-Aer Lingus can't happen on our property due to our scope. MEH does have a place in the scope discussion, but we believe there are no loopholes that can be exploited. If you are aware of some, please pm me.
Also, TPG owns 53% of MEH and has control. Delta (NWA) has written off the value of the MEH investment, but they still own the stock. Delta does not have any operational control of MEH.
Last edited by slowplay; 06-08-2009 at 11:00 AM.
06-08-2009, 11:10 AM
#7989
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by slowplay
It was our scope that prevented the increase in EMB-175 gross weights.
06-08-2009, 11:22 AM
#7990
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,999
Originally Posted by slowplay
It was our scope that prevented the increase in EMB-175 gross weights. The grievance settlement laid out more clearly the numbers of allowed 76 seaters (ALPA's interpretation) and consequences if furloughs occur.
Did we memorialize these agreements in some sort of LOA, or contract language revision? I know these were resolved, but did the resolution result in some sort of documentation in addition to the "understanding" ?
Also, any documentation we stopped the E175 weight increase BEFORE the Service Bulletin was completed, or is the agreement not to operate them at the higher weights?
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